Chamber and committees

I thank the member for the intervention. Aside from repeating what Ms Martin has already said, I point to the fact that we have a multifaceted issue with polydrug use that is unique to Scotland, which might explain some of the issues that we face.

If the Social Justice and Social Security Committee does anything, it highlights the complexity of such issues, recognising that the life of every individual in Scotland does not fit into a single remit. As a committee, we have heard that individuals can get trapped in a funnelled web of complex issues that can become ever worse. For someone with little income, just one event—losing a job, taking on caring responsibilities, an increase in fuel costs—can start a downward, often lonely, spiral. For someone who is experiencing multiple, severe and complex disadvantage, the risk of problem substance abuse multiplies.

In our current inquiry on problem debt and low incomes, we are hearing that many families and individuals are in no position to build any financial resilience. They cannot absorb the shock of changes in circumstances, which can also impact hugely on their emotional resilience.

Poverty is a feature not only of unemployment, as those in low-paid, precarious jobs also face significant financial challenges. Many people struggle with their mental health because of debt, and some people with existing mental health problems find it hard to engage with services and support to help them get out of debt. As we have heard, stigma also magnifies these issues. We know that, with not enough to live on now and in the face of the cost of living crisis, some people are at real risk.

We know that the reasons why someone turns to drugs are complex and dependent on many factors. For some, it is youthful experimentation; for others, what might have started as recreational use will progress into escapism and self-medication—the means to a way out of a hopeless situation when other means seem not to exist.

However, there is a light on the horizon. We are hopeful that the trend that we have seen over the past year, of a decrease in drug-related deaths, will continue—remaining mindful, however, that any such death is one too many. In a personal and work-related capacity, I know just how devastating a loss is and how far the ripples go. That tentative but positive decrease in deaths is the result of specific actions that have been taken to provide holistic support. The housing first approach recognises the social barriers that people face; the impact of the lack of that most fundamental of needs, a safe place to call home; and the need for services to gather around vulnerable people.

Organisations such as Simon Community Scotland, Faces and Voices of Recovery UK, We Are With You and Turning Point Scotland tell us that it is not just about prevention of death and further harm, but about working with people over a long time and at their own pace, providing the support that they need and recognising a sometimes traumatic past.

Turning Point Scotland says that, although the complexity of need was identified as a priority for the task force, no specific recommendations were made. It calls for greater integration and strategic thinking so that work across the system is co-ordinated. It also highlights the positive step that homelessness prevention looks set to become a duty across the public service system, though it emphasises that co-ordination is required across public services to realise the good intentions of policy.

What can prevent that holy grail of co-ordination of services around the needs of individuals, or the no-wrong-door approach for all those who need support? We are made aware daily of the brilliant, innovative and compassionate projects that respond to need. We saw how quickly we could respond to need, particularly homelessness, during the pandemic, and we know that systems can change. The system that creates poverty needs to change.

To conclude, there are different layers to the problem: the immediate joined-up compassionate support that a person needs to prevent them falling further; the actions of public services to ensure that all that they do is co-ordinated, agile and aligned with the third sector, which is crucial in this; and, finally, the need to end the structural unfairness that makes people vulnerable in the first place, which we all have the power to end but which is perhaps the hardest, though the most crucial, thing to achieve.

We will now ask questions on the theme of balancing the interests of creditors and those of people with debt problems. The deputy convener, Natalie Don, will kick us off.

Richard, we seem to have lost connection with you.

Our last question in this session is from Pam Duncan-Glancy.

Good morning and welcome to the 17th meeting in 2022 of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. Our first item of business is to decide whether to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

We turn to our next item of business, which is an evidence session for our inquiry into low income and debt. We are taking evidence from Richard Dennis, the Accountant in Bankruptcy. Welcome to the committee and thank you for joining us.

Before I begin, I remind everyone that broadcasting will operate your microphones. We have about an hour for this session, before we hear from the Scottish Commission on Social Security at around 10.30 am. Richard Dennis will make an opening statement.

Many thanks for that, Mark. As we have only a short amount of time left for this session—Mark has to leave for another meeting—I request that members ask all their questions in one when I come to them in turn. We will start with Paul McLennan, please.

Sally Witcher wants to come in.

Many thanks for those opening remarks. I will hand over to members for questions and Paul McLennan will kick us off.

Welcome back. We now have a short evidence session with the Scottish Commission on Social Security about its report on the draft Disability Assistance for Working Age People (Transitional Provisions and Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2022—is that not a mouthful—which were laid in Parliament on 6 May. The regulations deal with the transfer from disability living allowance to adult disability payment for adults of working age and those who have reached pension age since April 2013.

The committee will invite the minister to give evidence on the regulations at a future meeting. This morning, I am pleased to welcome Dr Sally Witcher, who is the chair of SCOSS, and Dr Mark Simpson, who is a member of the commission. I hand over to Dr Witcher to make an opening statement.