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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 987 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Welcome to the 15th meeting in 2022 of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Does the committee agree to take item 3 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session for our inquiry into low income and debt problems. We had our first formal session on 28 April. Today, we will hear from two panels. The first will consider the delivery of money advice service and key issues for people on low incomes, and the second will focus on debt and mental health.

I welcome our first panel to the meeting. We are joined online by Peter Kelly, director, the Poverty Alliance; Sarah-Jayne Dunn, policy manager for financial health, Citizens Advice Scotland; and Anne Baldock, financial inclusion team leader, One Parent Families Scotland. With us in the room is Emma Jackson, national director Scotland, Christians Against Poverty. It is fantastic to have a witness in the room for the first time since the pandemic. Our colleagues Pam Duncan-Glancy and Foysol Choudhury are joining us remotely.

I want to mention a few housekeeping points before we kick off. Those of you who are online should put an R in the chat function if you want to come in on a question, and please allow a few seconds for broadcasting colleagues to turn on your microphone before you start speaking. Emma Jackson can indicate that she wishes to come in by raising her hand, and I will make sure that I see it. Given that she is sitting in front of us, we will endeavour not to direct every question at her.

Moreover, our witnesses should not feel that they need to answer every question. We have a lot of questions to get through, and with four people on the panel, we will be a little bit tight for time. However, if anyone wants to add any comments, please let us know. We have about an hour.

My colleagues will now ask questions in turn, starting with Emma Roddick.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Thank you for that example—it is really important for the committee to hear that.

Peter Kelly and Anne Baldock would like to come in—I ask that you do so briefly, please. Emma Roddick will then ask a follow-up question.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

I ask Anne Baldock to be really brief.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

I am sorry to interrupt, but I need to bring in Wendy McAuslan. You are underlining points that we have heard previously, especially about leaving the minimum income in people’s bank accounts. We will take evidence on the council tax next week and your evidence will help us to formulate our questions.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Thank you. Pam Duncan-Glancy, do you have another question?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

We need to move on now, but I will bring you back in later. I just want everybody to get their opportunity.

We will go to questions from Foysol Choudhury, who is also online.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Thank you. We need to move on. If the witnesses want to make us aware of anything else, they should follow up with us in writing, because there will not be time for them to say everything that they want to say this morning.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

Who did you want to direct those questions to, Pam?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Low Income and Debt Inquiry

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Elena Whitham

I have a question, but I ask the witnesses to answer it in writing. Yesterday, there was a report from the Lloyds Bank Foundation entitled “Deductions: Driver of Poverty”. A huge part of it is about the deductions from benefits that Sarah-Jayne talked about earlier.

In my experience of working with people who were in debt, perpetual deductions from benefits was always the big issue. The drivers for that include recouping of advances, or people having been surprised by historical debt from the clunky tax credit system. Obviously, those drivers mean that people can never get out of debt because they have essentials to pay for. Could your organisations write to us to say whether they agree with the report’s recommendations about writing off historical debts and doing a full review of the system of clawback from benefits, which are, essentially, the minimum that people are supposed to live on but are not means tested? It was very interesting to hear Sarah-Jayne Dunn or Emma Jackson talking about how once benefits hit the bank account they are not protected. The committee would like to hear your thoughts on that report and its recommendations, if that is possible.

Thank you for coming along; I am sorry that we ran over time. We will pause for the panels to change over and to take a short break.

10:13 Meeting suspended.  

10:19 On resuming—