Chamber and committees

It is important that we recognise that the chamber will not be dealing with anybody’s underlying entitlement to anything. However, the signposting element of anybody’s work is really important. I might need to come back to the committee with a fuller answer on that point, but I have definitely heard what you and Pam Duncan-Glancy have said in that regard.

Thank you, convener, and good morning, members.

The First-tier Tribunal for Scotland (Transfer of Functions of the Council Tax Reduction Review Panel) Regulations 2023 will, if approved, transfer the functions of the council tax reduction review panel to the Scottish tribunals structure that was created by the Tribunals (Scotland) Act 2014. The 2014 act created a new, simplified statutory framework for tribunals in Scotland by establishing the Scottish tribunals. The framework brings together existing tribunal jurisdictions and provides a structure for new jurisdictions.

The functions of the council tax reduction review panel and the valuation appeals committees, as well as certain functions of the Lands Tribunal for Scotland, are to be transferred to the Scottish tribunals on 1 April 2023. The regulations that cover the transfer of the functions of the valuation appeals committees and the Lands Tribunal for Scotland were considered at a previous meeting of the committee.

In relation to the regulations that are before the committee today, the council tax reduction scheme provides lower-income households with a reduction in their council tax liability. An applicant who is unhappy with their local authority’s decision on council tax reduction can ask for a review. If they are still unhappy following the review, they can apply to the council tax reduction review panel for a review of the local authority’s decision. The regulations transfer the existing functions of the council tax reduction review panel to the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland’s local taxation chamber and abolish the council tax reduction review panel.

Going forward, therefore, appeals of local authority decisions in relation to council tax reduction will be heard by the First-tier Tribunal local taxation chamber. The regulations also make consequential amendments to primary and secondary legislation resulting from the transfer of functions to the Scottish tribunals.

I understand that the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee considered the regulations on 10 January 2023. The DPLR Committee identified an incorrect cross-reference in the regulations. Officials have proposed that the instrument is amended prior to signing to correct the erroneous reference. The DPLR Committee noted the proposal for rectifying the error and agreed that the instrument should be drawn to the attention of the Parliament on general reporting grounds.

I am happy to answer any questions.

Thanks for that question. The Government was very aware of CPAG’s response during the consultation process.

The United Kingdom Government’s Welfare Reform Act 2012 abolished council tax benefit, removing council tax support from the benefit system. In response, the Scottish Government introduced the council tax reduction scheme, which creates a schedule of means-tested reductions to an individual’s council tax liability. It is important to point out that council tax reduction is not a benefit and is not administered by Social Security Scotland, which is what the social security chamber deals with. Rather, council tax reduction reduces applicants’ liability for council tax. It was a policy decision that all appeals relating to council tax, including council tax reduction, should be heard by the local taxation chamber, as they are issues that relate to local taxation.

In drawing up the regulations, Government officials were mindful of the complexities around council tax reduction and about the people who may be bringing cases to the local taxation chamber. The officials may want to elaborate a little bit on that.

I assure Katy Clark that this is something that I intend to pursue rigorously for the reasons that she outlined.

Not that long ago, a soot-stained tunic was inextricably linked to the courage and the dedication of our firefighters. Now, we absolutely know that that soot, along with the aerosol vapours, signifies harmful contaminants. The SFRS has already made significant practical changes in procedures, equipment and facilities to reduce firefighter contact with equipment that could contain contaminants that are harmful to health. That important work will continue.

Many years ago—probably about 15 years ago—I was on call in a communal refuge in Ayrshire when we had a fire. I will forever be indebted to the firefighters who came out that day and to their dedication in ensuring that all the women and children were safe. For two years after that, I noticed the soot working its way out of every single nook and cranny in the refuge, so I know that soot is a significant contaminant.

We know about some of the practical changes that have been introduced, including working practices to ensure that firefighting equipment is properly cleaned and stored, in order to reduce contamination. Operational personnel, who might have been exposed to contaminants, are encouraged to shower as quickly as possible on their return to station grounds.

I know that, in some remote and rural areas, we have limited welfare facilities, and procedures have been developed to ensure that firefighters in those areas have appropriate decontamination solutions. That is not ideal, and I am very clear on my intention to engage directly on that urgent matter. A number of steps have also been taken to mitigate risk, including supplying all SFRS appliances and training centres with specialist decontamination wipes and, as Joe FitzPatrick mentioned, the trial of station zoning systems to limit potential spread.

In closing, I again thank Maggie Chapman for the opportunity to discuss the issue and I thank members for their considered contributions from across the chamber.

For my retired firefighter uncle—who, because of his very sunny disposition, was forever known to his watch mates as Dark Cloud—and for all current and future firefighters, members can rest assured that I am keenly focused on the issue, and I look forward to working with the FBU on that at our meeting on 1 February.

I, too, thank Maggie Chapman for raising this important issue and for bringing it to the attention of the wider Parliament today.

I acknowledge the significant work of the Fire Brigades Union in commissioning this important research with the University of Central Lancashire and producing the report that is being discussed today, which I have read closely. I welcome representatives from the Fire Brigades Union and Professor Anna Stec to the gallery today.

The safety, health and wellbeing of all SFRS staff, who work so hard to protect communities in some of the most challenging environments, are of the utmost importance and are a key priority to me. Although the FBU’s DECON campaign, the research and any of its subsequent findings are matters for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, as the employer of firefighters in Scotland, it is an issue that I, as the minister with portfolio responsibility, intend to pursue rigorously, given its vital significance.

Through regular meetings with the SFRS board chair and chief officer, I am fully aware of the research. I know that the SFRS has engaged with the work for a number of years and that it met Professor Anna Stec in November 2022 to hear directly about the important research that she was doing and to offer the SFRS continued co-operation on that work.

The SFRS established its management of contaminants working group in 2018, to look, as we have heard, at potential risks and how to support firefighter safety. The group includes representation from the FBU, has links to external specialists and is supported at the highest levels of SFRS staffing. The purpose of the working group is to look at technical, procedural and cultural solutions to mitigate the risks of personnel and any others who might be affected by the actions of SFRS personnel being exposed to contaminants.

As Jamie Greene pointed out, it is very difficult to answer those questions when I have not yet directly engaged with the FBU on that matter, although I will do so in a few weeks’ time. That will be an extra meeting because of the significant importance of the matter. I will come back on those issues, because I recognise their importance.

Opportunities are now being explored as to how the SFRS can work with Professor Stec on the potential positive impacts of policies, training, awareness and preventative measures, as the contaminants group continues to explore steps to minimise risk and improve firefighter safety as a result of the newly published report.

As part of the wider commitment to the welfare of SFRS staff, the service has developed a dedicated cancer awareness and prevention area in its internal i-hub. That is important, given that the increased rate of some types of cancers in some age groups is significantly higher than just 1.5 per cent or 5 per cent. The SFRS has also implemented enhanced cancer-focused screening questions and discussions—about, for example, skin checks and testicular and breast self-checks—during routine medical assessments, and it has introduced a data collection process to record, monitor and report on cancer diagnosis, which includes details of the type of cancer, age, gender, role, duty, system, work and home location. Given the recent research that highlighted a potential increase in the rate of heart attacks and strokes, I am keen to explore that further and will engage with the FBU on its asks surrounding annual health monitoring. I think that that is really important.

In February 2022, the service also signed the Dying to Work charter in order to show continued commitment to the welfare of its staff by protecting the rights at work of those people who face a serious or terminal illness. It is important that they can choose the path that is right for them and their families, without the additional worry of financial uncertainty.

We will continue to carefully consider any specific proposals from the FBU on the potential for any new legislation surrounding compensation and protection. Certain aspects of the health and safety legislation are reserved, so specific proposals would be required, so that they can be assessed against legislative competence. Should we get to that position, I am clear that I will work with the United Kingdom Government on that. My officials will also continue to investigate the current status of occupation recording, and we will look at options and procedures to see whether the proposed changes are feasible.

I know that capital resources are very tight, specifically this year, and we have ensured that the current level will be protected, but I will continue to discuss capital requirements with the SFRS, including looking at a degree of estate rationalisation to ensure that fire stations are located where they are most needed, in order to cover risks in our communities and to allow additional investment in remaining fire stations, while keeping that research at the forefront of my mind.

A national bairns’ hoose governance group has been established and extensive engagement with key partners has been carried out. The first national bairns’ hoose standards will be published this spring.

We are developing a phased approach to implementation and will publish further information in the coming months, along with a progress report on our bairns’ hoose project plan.

We are also progressing the roll-out of the Scottish child interview model for joint investigative interviews, which will be a cornerstone of the bairns’ hoose approach to justice in Scotland.

I know that Rona Mackay, like me, has a keen awareness of adverse childhood experiences. The bairns’ hoose represents a child-centred approach to delivering justice, care and recovery for children who have experienced trauma. Services will be co-located, which will reduce the need for multiple interviews by different agencies in different locations, which we know can be retraumatising.

The national standards are based on the European PROMISE quality standards and, as a recent associate member of the Barnahaus network, we now have access to learning from existing best practice across member countries. Alongside partners, we will continue to draw on relevant best practice that is emerging in Scotland, including the Scottish child interview model, which continues to roll out at pace.

Thank you, convener, and good morning, members.

This suite of three sets of regulations will transfer all the functions of the valuation appeals committee and certain functions of the Lands Tribunal for Scotland to the Scottish tribunals, and will set out the composition of those tribunals when they are exercising the transferred functions.

The Tribunals (Scotland) Act 2014 created a new simplified statutory framework for tribunals in Scotland by establishing the Scottish tribunals, consisting of the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland and the Upper Tribunal for Scotland. That framework brings the range of existing tribunal jurisdictions together into one system and provides a structure for new jurisdictions coming in.

The valuation appeals committee and some limited functions of the Lands Tribunal for Scotland are due to be transferred to the Scottish tribunals on 1 April 2023. The draft First-tier Tribunal for Scotland (Transfer of Functions of Valuation Appeals Committees) Regulations 2023 provide for the transfer of the existing functions of the valuation appeals committees to the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland local taxation chamber. Existing members of the valuation appeals committees will not transfer to the Scottish tribunals; instead, members have been appointed through a fair and open recruitment process that was undertaken by the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland.

In addition, the regulations make provision for cases that are in progress on the date of transfer, and they make amendments to primary and secondary legislation that are necessary as a consequence of the transfer of the functions.

The second instrument is the draft Upper Tribunal for Scotland (Transfer of Valuation for Rating Appeal Functions of the Lands Tribunal for Scotland) Regulations 2023. Currently, appeals in relation to non-domestic rates cases can, in certain circumstances, be referred from a valuation appeals committee to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland. Such circumstances have included cases in which the facts were particularly complex, the law was particularly difficult to apply or the property in relation to the valuation that was being appealed straddled two valuation areas. A decision by a valuation appeals committee not to refer a case to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland can also be appealed to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland.

Upon transfer of those matters to the Scottish tribunals, a referral system similar to the current one will be retained, but with qualifying cases being referred to the Upper Tribunal. That will ensure that complex or significant cases can be considered by a body with additional expertise and that the matters are dealt with entirely within the Scottish tribunals system. Parties will also be able to pursue an appeal to the Upper Tribunal if they disagree with a decision of the First-tier Tribunal not to refer such a case.

Finally, the draft First-tier Tribunal for Scotland Local Taxation Chamber and Upper Tribunal for Scotland (Composition) Regulations 2023 specify the number and types of members—for example, judicial, legal or ordinary—of the local taxation chamber of the First-tier Tribunal who are required in relation to the different appeals before that body. Likewise, the regulations set out the membership of the Upper Tribunal when it considers appeals or referrals from the First-tier Tribunal. I understand that the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee considered the regulations on 20 December 2022 and raised no points on them.

The functions of another body, the Council Tax Reduction Review Panel, are also due to be transferred to the First-tier Tribunal, to take effect at the same time. That transfer is provided for in a separate set of regulations, which I know will be considered by the committee at a later meeting.

I would be happy to answer any questions, and my officials are also here to help.