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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 846 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

I am grateful to you for allowing me to come back in, convener.

Minister, last week, we had Mark Hazelwood from the Scottish Partnership for Palliative Care, who talked about the fact that not everybody will recover and that one in three hospital beds is used by someone who is in their last year of life. The partnership would like two specific things to be included in the bill. It wants to have something in the bill about people with irreversible health conditions through illness or old age and who are approaching the end of life. Secondly, the partnership wants something about interventions that are about preventing or delaying the development of care needs and reducing care needs and support for those with irreversible health conditions. It feels like end-of-life issues are not included in the bill, even though that is something that we will all face at some point, and the issue is becoming larger proportionately as the demographics change.

Will you consider changes to the principles of the bill to include end-of-life issues?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

One of the barriers to that seems to be the idea of incorporating community health primary care services and taking that kind of public health approach. If we are saying that no health staff will be transferred into the national care service, can that really be achieved?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

I have another two, so do not take too long.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

On that, the concern seems to be that there is not really any mention of community health services in the bill. Does that need further consideration? Where exactly are you with that?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

I could not agree more, and I think that most people will feel exactly the same.

My next question is for both Susan Webster and Mark Hazelwood. Is there anything specific that you would like to see in the bill to support what you have been talking about?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

I will go to Mark Hazelwood first, because he has mentioned a couple of times having the data to be able to make decisions. I realise that we have a wide range of experiences here—different types of people with different challenges—and we have always spoken about lived experience being central to the national care service. Across the board, for different people in different situations, what should we consider measuring and how do we measure that? What are the things that really matter, which we should focus on?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

I will pick up on the point about independent advocacy; I suppose that family advocacy would go alongside that. Alison Leitch said something earlier that really struck me: that everyone can make decisions about our loved ones, except us. That was very striking to hear.

Kainde Manji talked about success being about achieving outcomes that matter to people and their families. What provisions need to be in the bill that could be linked to monitoring and evaluation?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

My question is for Mark Hazelwood, too. Palliative care brings so much comfort and reassurance to families—in fact, it is priceless—but how well are things working in relation to keeping people at home as much as possible? You talked earlier about one in three hospital beds being used by someone in their last year of life and increased admissions and discharges. How can we improve that situation, and how could the national care service help in that respect? I am wondering about the ability to quickly step up and step down care at a local level. What are the important factors that should be considered?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

Yes, and then I have a quick follow-up question.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Stephanie Callaghan

That is fantastic. I will just mention the Blantyre care hub, which is absolutely fantastic at some of the stuff that you are talking about.