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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 2667 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Okay. I will clarify one point. Let me be absolutely clear that I said that I will come back to the committee with the guidance as we develop it if the motion to annul is not passed.

You asked about—I am trying to think carefully about the words that I use here—the integrity of the commissioner and their ability to make that decision independently. That goes to the heart of whether we trust people whom we give jobs to. We need to bear in mind that it will not be the Scottish Government who appoints a traffic commissioner but the Secretary of State for Transport. We might have someone sitting on the panel who will be part of that process, but the process of deciphering who the traffic commissioner will be is up to the secretary of state. We then have to accept the fact that that decision is made and that that is the traffic commissioner with whom we will work.

I will make one final point. Monica Lennon talked about there being slight differences between the models. They were not identical at all. The system that did not pass in England looked only at the financial model. The model that we are looking at goes much wider than that.

I will wind up by saying that I would very much like the committee to rethink, given some of the things that we have said. Some members have said that they are minded to vote in favour of a motion to annul. The regulations will give us the certainty to continue with the work that we have already been doing for the past number of years.

We have had the debate, so I will leave it at that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I will defer to the convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Okay. It is quite clear where we are in the committee. I will make one or two observations.

Douglas Lumsden said that there will be no delays because we have the timescale. However, we have no idea whether SPT will continue with the process if it now has uncertainty about how things will go. I am not saying that there will be a delay, but there is definitely a risk of delay to the process that SPT is in. That is my first point.

Mr Lumsden also said that there will be no panel if we do not pass this legislation, but there will be a panel. The point has been made on a number of occasions that that panel will be put in place by the traffic commissioner without any scrutiny or input from the Government at any point.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I am sorry; could you repeat that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Monica, you go first; my apologies.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I will go to Douglas Lumsden first and then come back to Mark Ruskell.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

The assurance that I can give the committee is that, if we approve the instrument, I will come back to the committee with the guidance as it develops. The committee can then scrutinise that guidance before it goes into the traffic commissioner’s remit. However, once it becomes part of the traffic commissioner’s remit, it is his or hers, because the whole purpose of the regulations is to cut the umbilical cord between the political side of things and deliver a process that the people of Scotland want. I am more than happy to come back to the committee to talk about the guidance and to try to get that agreed as we go forward. I can give that commitment.

There were other interventions. Was it Douglas Lumsden?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

We have not spoken specifically about the SSI.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

We would not be minded to change just this provision. We would have to change the act, which would take us beyond 2026.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Because it is set in primary legislation. It is part of the 2019 act, so we would have to go back to the beginning and start again.