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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 September 2025
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Displaying 2161 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

No, we would keep it as a control scheme at that stage, because people can say anything that they like. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, when they actually come in and start carrying out the measures that are required.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

If NatureScot were to de-escalate a control scheme and the new owner said that they would carry that out and then did not comply, NatureScot would be back to square 1. It would land back on the minister’s desk to be signed off, and so on. If the order stays with the land, the process is there. It is not about the individual; it is about the landscape-scale management of the deer in the area. If a control scheme stays in place, it is actually an incentive for the people who are selling their land to make sure that they have deer management in place. You generally do not sell an estate at the drop of a hat. If that is one of the preparations that a person has to do to make sure that there is no deer order on their estate, that would be a good thing from their point of view.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

It would be far beyond my remit to give advice on how people should sell their land. I will leave that thought with you.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

We will have a look at that. Ross Ewing raised that in a previous evidence session, in relation to situations where you can see or hear somebody. Let us consider what that means, and we will flesh that out.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

Stalkers do not need any training at the moment—that answers the argument, as it shows that we really should be doing something. As I said in my previous answer, we will bring in the measures at stage 2, and we will consider the best way to manage those who have been stalking for 30 or 40 years and who are more than competent but who do not have a certificate that says so. We will then consider how to manage the transition, ensuring that everybody gets up to that fit and competent standard.

I absolutely take on board the point that you are making. Right now, stalkers do not need anything at all; they need only a gun licence.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

All that people will have to do is report it. It is not the case that someone will have committed an offence for shooting a stray deer. If someone shoots a deer and it turns out to be a farmed deer, all they will have to do is report it within five days—that is all that is required.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

I think that QMS has more than enough on its plate in dealing with the products that it already deals with. Venison is a fairly unique product and should be marketed as such, and there is a lot that we can do that does not have to be done under the umbrella of QMS. It is also not something that we would need to legislate on. It is fine the way it is.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

We might have to look into some technical issues with that, but I hear your point.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

I would not say that the system has not worked at the moment—it is just that deer numbers are where they are, and we are now going to take action to try to get those numbers down.

There is a huge amount of good will in the sector. I have had a number of meetings with land managers and deer managers, and everybody is agreed that we want to do this and get the numbers down. There are varying reasons as to why the numbers may have gone up, but there is a concerted effort to get them down. Everybody is actually on board with that—that is one of the things that I have taken from my engagement with stakeholders on the bill. They may be unhappy with individual bits of the bill, but the overall consensus is that we want to do this, and we want to do it collectively. As I said right at the start, we are not going to do this on our own. I do not see there being any greater use of the section 8 powers, because I genuinely see a concerted effort from everybody who is involved.

On the occasions when NatureScot has to get involved, that can usually be done through deer management groups and consultation with the people who are involved. I very much hope that that will continue, because there is a collective effort to achieve our aims.

12:15  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

The bill gives certainty to the industry and the Government that we are working towards the same end and the same aims. Notwithstanding the point that I just made that there will be conflicts around different bits of the bill, overall, everybody is behind the aims and objectives, and everybody understands what we are trying to do. I therefore hope that we can resolve the vast majority of issues that come up through negotiation and consultation with the people who are on the ground, rather than by any kind of enforcement.