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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 2160 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

I would not say that the system has not worked at the moment—it is just that deer numbers are where they are, and we are now going to take action to try to get those numbers down.

There is a huge amount of good will in the sector. I have had a number of meetings with land managers and deer managers, and everybody is agreed that we want to do this and get the numbers down. There are varying reasons as to why the numbers may have gone up, but there is a concerted effort to get them down. Everybody is actually on board with that—that is one of the things that I have taken from my engagement with stakeholders on the bill. They may be unhappy with individual bits of the bill, but the overall consensus is that we want to do this, and we want to do it collectively. As I said right at the start, we are not going to do this on our own. I do not see there being any greater use of the section 8 powers, because I genuinely see a concerted effort from everybody who is involved.

On the occasions when NatureScot has to get involved, that can usually be done through deer management groups and consultation with the people who are involved. I very much hope that that will continue, because there is a collective effort to achieve our aims.

12:15  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

The bill gives certainty to the industry and the Government that we are working towards the same end and the same aims. Notwithstanding the point that I just made that there will be conflicts around different bits of the bill, overall, everybody is behind the aims and objectives, and everybody understands what we are trying to do. I therefore hope that we can resolve the vast majority of issues that come up through negotiation and consultation with the people who are on the ground, rather than by any kind of enforcement.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

We might have to look into some technical issues with that, but I hear your point.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

Again, no, I do not think that that would be appropriate at this stage. The code of practice will be worked out with stakeholders and the people it will be relevant to, and then we will bring it forward. We will not have the time to do it before we get to stage 3, but, as I have stated from the outset, it will absolutely be done in consultation with stakeholders, so that we get it right.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

If you put those things in primary legislation, they become primary legislation. We want them to be in the code of practice so that we have flexibility, because things might change, as we said earlier.

Putting the conditions into the bill will mean that they are put into primary legislation. I am dealing in the same way with another bill right now. If you set something out in legislation and then people want to change stuff later on because circumstances have changed, that is a whole different problem to deal with. Setting the conditions out in the code of practice gives us the flexibility to get it right.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

We are seeing them already, and they are happening all over the country. Those relationships are good and workable, and we hope that that approach will continue.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

NatureScot would certainly have to abide by the law. If we are talking about the code of practice, that code is there to get people to work collectively and collaboratively.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

That is a good point. We can take a further look at that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

It is important to remember that NatureScot will not just turn up at the door one day and give a five-day notice; there will have been plenty of engagement beforehand. The current notice period sits at 14 calendar days, and the proposal in the bill is five working days. The period has been shortened, because there is a general understanding that although there is a process to go through, if something needs to be done, and quickly, a five-day period will be adequate, particularly as NatureScot will have tried to engage with whoever it is has the problem on their land.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Jim Fairlie

NatureScot can do that anyway. It can de-escalate a control order if it believes that things are being done in the appropriate manner.