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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 February 2026
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Displaying 2839 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

That is not what we have done; again, you are mischaracterising what has been said. The draft code of conduct is quite clear that someone could lose their pass if they

“act in a way that hurts or threatens others.”

It includes some examples of that, such as hurting someone physically, which is a criminal act; using abusive, threatening or indecent language; any kind of harassment, such as racial abuse; and how it would be decided that it is antisocial behaviour. Mark Ruskell asked what would happen if someone was using indecent language and they have Tourette’s. Transport Scotland officials will have to look at that before any decision is made about whether to remove the individual’s bus pass. Those decisions would have to be made on an individual basis.

More importantly, I very much hope that the code will act as a deterrent and that it will not be a normal process to remove someone’s bus pass. It is about antisocial behaviour on buses; it will not solve the criminal justice system across Scotland.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

We have not done any modelling on the number of passes that would be removed. As I said, there is a lot of complexity involved in this issue. Officials will go through the operational process of working out what removing bus passes would mean.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

Again, as I said in my response to you, it is my expectation that that is what would happen. As Bob Doris pointed out, there is no ministerial direction here—it has to be an operational issue for Transport Scotland. As a minister, it is my expectation that such criminal acts would result in the loss of the bus pass. However, Douglas Lumsden has made the point that we would then be looking at retrospective decision making. I am not going to talk about the individual case, but he is talking about retrospective decision making, and that is not something that I can talk about right now.

I will have conversations with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs with regard to all the things that we have talked about today. A huge amount of work is already going on in the Scottish Government that is well beyond the scope of the order, and nobody is going to defend the rights of women and children more than me or my colleagues in the Government—we have been very proactive in doing so. I am more than happy to continue working across Government, if that is what Monica Lennon wants to happen.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

You have put it far more eloquently than I did. Yes, those are not ministerial decisions; they will be operational decisions for Transport Scotland.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

I would like to understand what opportunity you think has been missed in terms of what we are trying to achieve with the order. I have not, in any way, tried to minimise the points that you have made during the discussion. The order has the specific function of removing, for antisocial behaviour on buses, passes from people who are entitled to them. There is massive complexity even within that, which is why it is taking time. I accept that the issue has been discussed for a number of years. However, proper and thorough investigation is still required as to whether it is the right thing to do, and, if so, how to do it. That is why we are here now.

I am curious, and this is not a gotcha question: what is the missed opportunity here, and what would you rather see going forward?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

I do not believe that it was considered as a stand-alone thing. I believe that we took the findings from the round tables and the discussions that we had with various stakeholders and decided to look overall at the removal of bus passes in the case of antisocial behaviour. No specific thinking was done about criminality and the automatic removal of a bus pass. That is my understanding, unless Carole Stewart can tell me something different.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

If we could deal with the first order first.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

You are asking why the code is not more specific.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

It should not have to be spelled out that violence against women and girls is not acceptable. We should tackle that issue at every opportunity and in every setting, not just on buses. It should not be considered only in the context of whether folk get a bus pass. The challenge that we face in tackling violence against women and girls is far broader than that.

The code is laid out in broad terms in order to allow judgment to be exercised as to whether a pass should be removed. As we discussed with the convener, a determination will be made after the process has been gone through. In making that judgment, Transport Scotland will ask the person who has been reported what they believe the situation was. The decision will be made by Transport Scotland.

As far as abusive, threatening or indecent language is concerned, that will be a judgment for Transport Scotland to make, because that is an operational issue.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Jim Fairlie

No, it would not. It is about what happens during the travel.