Chamber and committees

I am pleased to say that we have a new group of officials. We still have Nicola Guild and Heather Reece Wells with us, and we are now joined by Andrew Baird and Carole Robinson—welcome to you.

We will pick up where we left off and move on to parts 5 and 6.

We still have three more members who want to come in on part 4, so I will bring in Katy Clark and then Pauline McNeill.

Thank you very much, indeed, cabinet secretary. I want to pick up on your final point, which was in relation to the proposals around jury size and the jury majority requirement. In your helpful and detailed correspondence, you stated that, as you set out in your opening remarks, you will

“seek support for a model with two verdicts, fifteen jurors, and a two thirds majority requirement for conviction.”

Can you give more detail on why you are looking at that particular model and on what has been raised by stakeholders and other interested parties that has led to it being the preferred model?

That is most appreciated. We will have a short suspension to allow for a changeover of officials.

Thank you very much for your forbearance. For the record, we are now joined by Simon Stockwell, Heather Reece Wells and Sarah Crawford, who are the Government officials accompanying the cabinet secretary. We will go straight to parts 1, 2 and 3 of the bill.

I will take the liberty of asking a final question that perhaps relates to trauma-informed practice. As I said earlier, one of the issues that was raised during stage 1 was about access to court transcripts for complainers. You helpfully wrote to the committee recently to say that the pilot for providing free transcripts for complainers in High Court sexual offences cases is to be extended for a further 12 months, which is welcome. We are aware that some campaigners have suggested that the bill might be an opportunity to make the pilot permanent. What are your views on that suggestion?

Super. Thank you for that positive response.

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the interest that the Criminal Justice Committee has taken in officer and staff mental wellbeing. Although it is clear that a lot of progress has been made in that area, will she outline any further detail on access to support for officers and staff that is of a more specialist nature and that goes beyond the early preventative role?

Since this parliamentary session began, the challenges that the justice system faces have featured prominently in chamber business. Justice touches absolutely everyone. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Back in 2022, the new strategy, “Vision for Justice in Scotland: three year delivery plan”, set out the timely and welcome approach that was being taken across Scotland to grasp the nettle of reforming our justice system so that it meets the needs of a modern and contemporary Scotland. Scotland’s prison population remains among the highest, per capita, in western Europe, and front and centre of virtually every debate on the subject in this parliamentary session has been the need to reduce that population.

We understand the factors behind the stubborn upward trend. Many members have referenced the complexities of the prison population, longer sentences and the unrelenting legacy of Covid. Those factors are not unique to Scotland, but meaningful and sustained change has been difficult to achieve.

Although I support modernisation of our prison estate, I strongly disagree that creating more prison space as part of the solution to the current prison population challenge fits remotely with a contemporary justice system.

I will not, if Liam Kerr does not mind, as I am short of time.

In response, Scotland has undertaken a range of proactive steps, including a broadening out of community justice, interventions, the presumption against short-term prison sentences, and the enactment of the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Act 2023 to support more effective use of bail and more effective release planning. The provisions in the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 that ensure that under-18s are no longer sent to prison are also hugely welcome. I agree entirely with Rona Mackay’s comments with regard to community custody units that aim to effectively support women as they transition out of a prison environment and back into the community.

On the forthcoming budget for 2025-26, I am pleased to see the Scottish Government’s commitment to strengthening community justice services through an investment of almost £160 million, and I urge all members to support the budget next week. We cannot call out perceived failures in the system on the one hand without supporting the solutions on the other.

I note the comments of Dr Hannah Graham and her academic colleagues in their submission to the Criminal Justice Committee relating to the recent early release of prisoners. They said that

“the prison population and jail conditions are important issues which have been raised for decades. It will take political will, moral courage, resources, and action on several fronts to achieve meaningful change.”

I therefore welcome the cabinet secretary’s update on an independent review of sentencing and penal policy to examine how custodial sentences and community interventions can be used to best effect, including, importantly, whether and how they can be developed further.

I am also delighted to hear that Martyn Evans will chair the commission. He will bring a wealth of insight and experience to his role, as will the other commissioners who have been referenced today, and I do not think for one second that he will simply tell the cabinet secretary what she wants to hear.

The cabinet secretary noted that the review will focus initially on community sentencing, bail and release from custody. However, I hope that the issues around remand are also included as part of that early work. Perhaps, in her closing remarks, the cabinet secretary can jog my memory about whether remand is to be included.

I support all proposals to enable Scotland to continue on its journey towards a reformed and effective justice system. I welcome the announcement and look forward to following the progress of the review.