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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 September 2025
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Displaying 788 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

I accept that. That is why we have to ensure that the consultation is at the right level with the right people and that we always balance the different pieces of human rights legislation. The question would definitely be whether it was proportionate, and we would have to make sure that that was the case. That is the key thing that we would need to consult on.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

We have been very clear in the bill that it is not about specific actions, but the intent of those actions. The committee got very strong evidence from women who were concerned about walking past a group of people who were standing silently, because it could be deemed to be silent judgment.

However, we have to be cognisant that different people experience things in different ways. It is not for me to say how the police would look at any actions, although they would look at them in the wider context of what else was happening around about them.

I go back to the point that—as I said in my opening statement—the safe zone is 200m, so the behaviour can happen elsewhere. It need not necessarily happen right beside the hospital. I was struck by the theological debate that took place in an earlier evidence session about where it is appropriate to pray and whether it is appropriate to pray so close to a facility that is providing abortions, where you could impede people’s access and cause alarm or distress.

However, as I have said, it is for the police to determine what they would need in order to prosecute.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

Silent prayer is a form of vigil protest that is impacting on women attending abortion clinics, so yes.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

I am sorry—I am slightly confused. I am not clear where you mean chapels are. If a woman was accessing abortion services and was in the protected building and felt that she wanted to speak to the spiritual adviser or the chaplain in the hospital, that would absolutely not be captured by the legislation.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

As I have said, women should be able to access abortion services without unwanted influence, harassment or public judgment. As we have been creating the bill, we have been looking carefully at the balancing of rights under the ECHR.

The bill is targeted. We have specifically said that the legislation covers zones of 200m from the boundaries of the protected premises. As I said in my opening statement, we have also been clear that those who protest or who hold vigils, as has been described in the evidence to the committee, can still do so, but not within the safe access zones.

Those points were brought out through the work that we have done on speaking to stakeholders on both sides of the argument and the amazing response to Ms Mackay’s consultation. We feel that we have struck the right balance. We use the same wording as was used in the Supreme Court ruling on the Northern Ireland legislation, in that we believe that the legislation is proportionate, which is key when balancing the various human rights.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

The first conversation would have to be with the health boards that provide the services in order to understand any changes that they might be proposing or what new buildings they might be intending to build; the initial consultation would be of the boards. We would then consult bodies similar to those that we have spoken to with regard to the bill, to ensure that everything is captured as we intend.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

That is a fair comment. In the work, we looked at whether the limit should be bespoke for each hospital or should be consistent. It was felt, on balance, that consistency is the best way forward, because that will mean that there is clarity for women who are accessing services, for Police Scotland and for people who want to protest or demonstrate. That is another reason for going with a consistent 200m zone.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

Clearly, if we are talking about a new building, there would be a timeline for that, which would allow for consultation. However, I hear what you say about what would happen if we planned to quickly extend or reduce a zone. Therefore, I am very happy to come back to the committee on that. We also need to recognise that it is important to ensure, when changing a zone, that people who are holding vigils, as well as those who are seeking services, are made aware quickly.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

That would be my view. However, I will write to the committee to confirm that.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jenni Minto

I think that I was clear in my opening statement that anti-abortion demonstrations will still be able to occur in Scotland. We have been very clear about that. The only places for which we are legislating that they cannot happen—if the bill is passed—are within protected safe zones around establishments in Scotland that provide abortion services, of which there are currently 30.