Chamber and committees

I start by paying tribute to all the firefighters who work hard and play a vital role in keeping our communities safe. It is clear from the comments in tonight’s debate that we are all aware of the important role that the service plays, through working in partnership with others to prevent and respond to emergencies, in improving the safety and wellbeing of people throughout Scotland.

The bravery and passion of our firefighters have never been in question, and I do not recognise the negative picture of the service that has been painted by others this evening. I am confident that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has delivered and will continue to deliver the highest standard of service in order to keep our communities safe.

Thank you.

I want to respond to Katy Clark on the capital backlog. As I have mentioned, even though we had a flat cash settlement, we protected the capital investment this year at £32.5 million. Five fire stations are being refurbished this year. We will continue to work with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to identify the capital funding that it needs for its buildings, fleet and equipment.

In response to Richard Leonard, as I have said, it would be inappropriate for me to get involved in operational matters, but the Scottish Government is responsible for the budget.

Maggie Chapman asked about the FBU’s “Firestorm” report. The majority of the points that are raised in it, including on the allocation of resources and the recruitment, retention and training of firefighters, are matters for the SFRS to consider and address. However, having read the report, I can say that the Scottish Government agrees with a lot of the issues that it raises—such as keeping the community safe—and believes that bullying and harassment are always unacceptable. We want our firefighters to receive fair pay. The Scottish Government believes in a lot that is in the report.

I met MSPs during the recess and have met the SFRS for the past few months. Mercedes Villalba did not accept my invitation to meet, but I extend it again. I am more than happy to meet her.

I will address Pam Gosal’s point of getting around the table with the FBU.

That is an operational matter for the SFRS. It would not be for the Scottish Government. The SFRS is reviewing the situation. In September, after one year, it will go to a public consultation if—[Interruption.]

I met the FBU in June, I met it today, I met it last week, and I am meeting it again next month. Not getting around the table with the FBU is not an issue. I am always having discussions with it.

I will conclude. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service continues to perform well, and I firmly believe that it is in everyone’s interests to have an efficient and effective service. The Government will ensure that fire and rescue is a priority, both now and in the future.

I finish where I started, by commending all those who work in the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and by thanking our firefighters for their dedication and work, day and night, to keep people and communities safe.

I would like to make a little bit of progress, if I may. I have a lot to address, given all the contributions to the debate.

I turn to some of the issues that have been raised, starting with the budget. Since 2017-18, there have been substantial year-on-year increases in funding to support a modern and effective fire and rescue service. In the budget for 2023-24, the Scottish Government provided the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service with a total of £14.4 million in additional funding, bringing the total funding to £368 million this year, despite the challenging financial environment that we are in due to United Kingdom Government austerity and inflation. It is clear that all our public services have been hit by the inflationary pressures. That has meant that the SFRS has had to look at making efficiencies to deliver a balanced budget. That is the case across every single portfolio at the moment.

Although we have a cash increase of £1.7 billion in the 2023-24 budget, the impact of sustained inflation meant that, in real terms, the block grant at the time the budget was set was 4.8 per cent lower than it was in 2021-22. The UK Government’s autumn statement must take more substantive action to increase investment in the services that people rely on. It must feed into our budget so that we can better align spending and deliver for people and organisations across the whole of Scotland.

As long as Scotland’s public finances are tethered to the decisions of the Westminster Government, we will always be working with one hand behind our back. We must balance the budget each year, and we are committed to doing all that we can, within the powers at our disposal, to ensure that public finances are on a sustainable path. In relation to future budgets, as members know, that will be part of the annual budget.

Thanks to continued UK Government austerity, these are difficult financial times, and money is likely to continue to be tight for the next year. Limited levers are available to us to increase our spending power in the face of the UK Government’s failure to ensure that public spending responds to the real challenges that everyone’s lives are facing. We recognise that that means taking tough choices to ensure that our resources are focused on the three critical missions that are outlined in the policy prospectus, and driving reform to secure value for money for the taxpayer.

The financial position on capital funding is equally challenging. I am sure that we would all like to see the fire service—along with transport infrastructure, schools, prisons and hospitals—receive additional funding. That illustrates the difficult choices that need to be made on the allocation of scarce resources. We have maintained the SFRS capital budget at £32.5 million, and we will continue to strive to provide the SFRS with the funding that it needs to ensure that firefighters have the equipment and buildings that they need to keep people safe.

I turn to pay and firefighter numbers. I am pleased to say that, in February 2023, firefighters accepted an improved two-year pay offer of an increase of 7 per cent for 2022-23 and 5 per cent for 2023-24, to run to the end of June 2024. We are maintaining front-line services with a higher number of firefighters than there are in other parts of the UK. On 31 March 2022, there were 11.3 firefighters per 10,000 population in Scotland, 6.1 in England, and 8.4 in Wales.

A number of members have brought up the issue of the number and location of fire appliances. The number that is needed to keep communities safe is obviously an operational matter for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. [Interruption.] I hear Richard Leonard’s points, but it would be totally inappropriate for me to get involved with operational matters. I am sorry. I am involved with its budget from the Scottish Government, but not with operational decisions.

I am aware that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has recently withdrawn 10 appliances. It is important to highlight that those changes are not all about saving money. By withdrawing appliances in a planned and measured way, the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service can ensure that full crews are available, so more appliances can always be available to keep communities across Scotland safe.

Those operational changes were implemented at the start of September. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has said that they were chosen to minimise the impact on communities.

In some areas, as we know, there has been an overprovision of resources in comparison with the rest of the country. It is right for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to look to deliver effective and efficient services that deliver value for money for taxpayers and the public purse. His Majesty’s chief inspector of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has provided independent assurances that those temporary changes are based on a robust analysis of activity level, historical demand and the ability to supplement any initial responses within an acceptable time.

I say to Stuart McMillan and Mercedes Villalba that I was in Aberdeen this morning for the annual performance review of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, and that issue was brought up. The service committed to a full public consultation on any permanent changes.

On Claire Baker’s comments about whether the situation is being reviewed, the service is constantly reviewing, and I have had an assurance from the SFRS on the withdrawal of the 10 appliances.

It is also important to note that the changes are being made in the context of the reduction over the past 20 years in fires and fire deaths in all domestic premises.

We all want everyone to have a safe bonfire night this year. As part of the preparations, I met our emergency services gold commanders for operation moonbeam on 5 October. Operation moonbeam is the multi-agency response to the potential challenges of the bonfire night period and has been activated to ensure a swift and co-ordinated response to any serious incidents.

Through our partnerships, we are delivering public awareness campaigns that focus on firework safety and preventing bonfire night attacks on the emergency services. A significant amount of multi-agency partnership work by our community safety partners is continuing at local level, including awareness raising in schools, targeted work to prevent antisocial behaviour, trading standards activity with retailers and a range of measures to reduce the risk of bonfires and wilful fire raising.

It is for local authorities to utilise the discretionary firework control zone powers on the basis of their assessment of their areas’ needs and communities. However, it is untrue that local authorities are not interested in using the discretionary powers; my officials continue to engage with local authorities on using them. I can confirm that we have received a number of early expressions of interest from local authorities that are exploring designating a zone in their area.

It is important to highlight that firework control zones have been developed to support a long-term cultural change in relation to fireworks, not a quick fix. Although such zones will not be in place this year, local authorities across Scotland have a wealth of knowledge about and experience of preventing, planning for and responding to issues that involve fireworks, through a multi-agency response and approach.

The Scottish Government recognises the vital role of retail workers in our society and wants to ensure that they are protected, just like everyone else. Retail workers should be safe at work and should never have to experience abuse or violence when simply doing their job. The Protection of Workers (Retail and Age-restricted Goods and Services) (Scotland) Act 2021, which came into force in August 2021, created a statutory offence of threatening, abusing or assaulting a retail worker. That specific offence highlights the seriousness of such behaviour.

There is already access to advice, guidance and financial support through a wide range of organisations across the public sector. That is available to private businesses anywhere in Scotland and to social enterprises, the third sector and community-based organisations.

The firework control zone guidance was co-designed with a number of key stakeholders, including representatives from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, which fully supports the new powers. The legislation empowers local authorities to introduce control zones. I have written to encourage all council chief executives to consider how those powers might be applied in their areas and to set out the support, including financial support, that is available to them—a point that I made in my letter to MSPs, which Ben Macpherson referred to.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will continue to respond to every incident with the appropriate level of resources. In partnership with Police Scotland, it is well prepared for any additional demand during bonfire night.

I assure Pauline McNeill that I will monitor the situation closely, as I want the provision to be implemented in all local authorities, because there is a desire for that in communities. The legislation came into force in June and guidance was produced in time for consultation, although it was up to local authorities to use the discretionary firework powers on the basis of their decisions. Moving forward, I will monitor the situation, and I am happy to keep Ms McNeill updated.