Chamber and committees

Yes, we can hear you—fantastic. Thank you for giving us your time this morning. I just want to clarify that you can hear me.

I apologise, but we still have some technical issues, so, unfortunately, I will have to suspend the meeting again until we can rectify them.

Absolutely. Thank you for that answer.

We have three minutes left, so I will bring in Brian Whittle for a brief supplementary question.

I thank Professor Morris for his evidence and his time, and I apologise for the technical issues at the beginning of the meeting. If you would like to submit any further evidence to the committee, please do so in writing. The clerks will be happy to liaise with you on that.

I briefly suspend the meeting to allow Professor Morris to leave.

I move to the second item on the agenda, under which we will conclude our pre-budget scrutiny by taking evidence from the Scottish Government.

I welcome to the meeting, from the Scottish Government, John Swinney, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery; Simon Mair, the deputy director of Covid recovery and public sector reform; Andrew Watson, the director of budget and public spending and Christine McLaughlin, the director of population health. Thank you all for attending this morning.

Deputy First Minister, would you like to make any remarks before we move on to questions?

I know that you briefly touched on this in your opening statement. Following the UK Government’s fiscal announcement last week—we will not get any more information until 23 November—can you update the committee on any changes to the Scottish Government’s fiscal timetable and approach to budget setting?

I thank Daniel Johnson for introducing the debate. So far, all the contributions have raised valid questions.

In August last year, a constituent of mine from Prestwick got in touch to ask me to help speed up her mesh removal, after what she called 12 years of living in a “nightmare”. Despite having surgery here, my constituent was unable to have all the mesh removed. She decided to navigate herself through the process and so was not under the care of a consultant. Naturally, she was worried that she would slip through the cracks, and all that she really wanted to know was whether the Scottish Government would pay for her to travel to the US for groundbreaking surgery with Dr Veronikis.

Until that point, I had only watched and read news reports of women speaking about the horrors of mesh. It was not until I spoke to my constituent that I understood the reality of living with it. She had received her mesh implant in the hope that it would improve the quality of her life after the birth of her second child. Mesh, which had been around for several years before that, was hailed at the time as a revolutionary treatment for women who were suffering from stress incontinence or a prolapse.

For my constituent, six surgeries, including a hysterectomy, did not correct the damage or take away any of the chronic pain, bladder complications or, sadly, the original problem, which was a bladder prolapse. The pain was so great that she had to call an end to her 30-year career in education.

My constituent’s story is not unique. More than 20,000 women in Scotland have been affected by mesh implant and, just like my constituent, they deserve to be helped. As we know, in January this year, the Scottish Parliament unanimously passed the Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Act 2022 to compensate women who have paid for mesh removal surgery. Any woman who wanted mesh removal here or in the US was urged to contact their clinician for referral to the Bristol centre or the one in the US. On 6 June, a dedicated fund opened so that the mesh removal cost could be reimbursed to women who had decided to have the surgery and had paid for it. I welcomed that news.

Fast forward to now, and, just this week, I have been speaking to my constituent, who has returned from the US. After four hours of surgery, she is now, thankfully, mesh free, which is great news and very welcome.

My constituent is in the process of completing her reimbursement form. It is not appropriate for me to go into all the details of the challenges that she is facing in that process, but I have written to the cabinet secretary about the reimbursement process, and I look forward to a response for my constituent’s peace of mind.

Even after all the forms are filled in and the money is paid, it will not be the end of the process for my constituent or any of the other women. The pain and damage might still be there, and rehabilitation might take a long time. Many women have suffered an unimaginable amount of pain due to complications as a result of transvaginal mesh implants, and it is absolutely right that the Scottish Government acted as it did. Rightly, there were concerns about women who might seek mesh removal in the future if symptoms develop, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government has provided assurance that the specialist national service—the complex pelvic mesh removal service—is available in the NHS in Scotland, hosted by NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde.

The story does not end there; we must be mindful of that. There are women who might need help for years to come, and the Government must be ready and willing to act accordingly. I remember my constituent saying to me that, because of the on-going pain and complications, her youngest child did not really know her. We cannot give her that time back, but we can give her and others a future by doing everything in our power to enhance the lives of the women who have been so cruelly robbed of time.

We have heard that Scotland is facing a reduced working population over the next 50 years. I am sure that every member of the Parliament is concerned about that.

As many members know, I grew up in Australia. Between 1945 and 1970, the Australian Government’s immigration policy sought migrants from England and Europe. In the 1970s, the policy changed, and people from other countries were encouraged to come to Australia. Migrants came from Asia, the middle east and South America, as well as some more from Europe. That policy was known as the “Ten Pound Poms”, and, in the 1970s, my parents decided to move to Australia with my brother and me.

I am sure that many of us have family members and friends who took up similar schemes, not only in Australia but in New Zealand and Canada. Many will also have family members and friends who have had the opportunity to go on working holidays to those places—to enjoy a new country and to base themselves there to travel, gain employment and life experiences, and contribute to the local economy. A lot of those people also fall in love, and they stay in the country if they get married. It is a win-win situation for both parties.

As we recover from the pandemic, Australia, like many countries around the globe that are struggling with the health crisis, is actively recruiting healthcare workers, nurses and doctors from other countries, including the UK. They know their problems and can be proactive in addressing them.

Although there have been repeated calls from the First Minister and the Scottish Government to allow us to have a devolved immigration system that suits our needs, we have been denied that. More than ever, as we emerge from the pandemic and tackle the cost of living crisis, the necessity is evident of Scotland’s having full powers not only to recover but to build a stronger Scotland, with Scotland’s priorities at its heart.

We absolutely need a workforce plan, but we are restricted if we cannot actively go out and seek people from other countries to come to Scotland. I know many people from countries around the world who would love to come to Scotland, but if we do not have the immigration policy, we cannot have them. We are limited by that.

Brexit has been mentioned several times. It is such an important factor in so many things that we face. I will discuss the fishing sector. My constituency of Ayr used to have a thriving fishing industry, but the numbers have dwindled over the years, with Brexit making matters only worse. Since Brexit—from 2019 to 2021—fish landings in Ayr were down in value by 36 per cent.

I spoke to Spes Bona Superior Seafood, which is based in my constituency and is a long-term family business, spanning many generations. Once it was thriving, but now the business has one of the few boats that is left in Troon. Times have been really difficult for it for the past couple of years, since Brexit, and now, with the fuel price increases. However, despite all those added challenges, it continues. At the moment, its main challenge is the workforce. Recently, it recruited a talented employee from Lithuania, but he has gone back there because, after two weeks, he could not secure a visa from the UK Government. The system results in a talented workforce getting turned away because visas are too difficult to access. The challenges that Scotland is facing with our working-age population are being experienced all over the world, but all the meaningful policy areas for addressing those challenges have been stripped away from Scotland.

However, we must not be all doom and gloom, as there are things to be positive about. Compared with EU countries, a high share of Scotland’s population who are aged 25 to 64 have a tertiary education and the University of St Andrews recently topped The Guardian’s list of the UK’s best universities. That shows the strength of Scotland’s higher education sector.

When people leave education and enter the workforce, the Scottish employer perspectives survey shows that the majority of employers are well satisfied with their workers’ level of skills.

In the national strategy for economic transformation, the Scottish Government has addressed our need for a highly skilled workforce to drive forward our economy. One of the ways in which we plan to do that, as has been mentioned, is by trying to attract workers from elsewhere in the UK. However, if the UK Government has the same problem with a reducing working-age population and continues with its hostile immigration policies, how can the Scottish Government attract highly skilled people to contribute to our economy? Schemes such as the rural visa pilot will be welcome as a solution, but only in the short term.

This is another debate that highlights the problems of Brexit and the negative effects that it is having on Scotland. I look forward to joining my colleagues on the COVID-19 Recovery Committee in our future inquiry into workforce shortages. We will look into the issue in more detail and do what we can do in the short term to address it.

I, like many others across Scotland today, am extremely concerned. We have the highest rate of inflation in 40 years, yesterday the pound plummeted to an all-time low, today some banks and building societies announced that they will have no more new mortgages, and interest rates are predicted to rise to 6 per cent next year. The United Kingdom is in chaos. The broad shoulders of the UK and a stable Government are a fantasy. The sooner that Scotland becomes independent and no longer is shackled to the failing UK Government, the better.

I start by thanking my colleague Kenneth Gibson for bringing the debate to Parliament.

Fans of the hit TV show “Seinfeld” may recall the episode when the eccentric Kramer announces with great delight that he has become the proud father of a 1-mile stretch of road and that he is part of the solution. In typical fashion, he decides that he will do everything himself and will even bring the roadside home to clean in the sink. Unfortunately, the episode ends in disaster after he decides to widen the lanes and spills flammable paint thinner everywhere. Civic pride is important, although perhaps not in that instance.

Prior to being elected as an MSP, I was a councillor at South Ayrshire Council. I was always extremely frustrated by the litter that was left on the side of the roads, our beaches and our streets, the anger created by and, sometimes, the public perception of litter.

As a councillor, I received many angry emails from constituents who walked past litter, got their phones out and took a photo, emailing a complaint to me about the lack of council litter services. I genuinely believe that some people have an expectation that, because they pay council tax and therefore pay people to lift the litter for them, they do not need to lift litter and have no responsibility themselves. The blame seems to be put on the council instead of the real culprits.

South Ayrshire Council covers close to 400 square miles, and in my constituency Barassie, Troon, Prestwick and Ayr all have a large beach. In the summer, our beaches are destination points for thousands to flock to and enjoy the sun. Our beaches have wooden footprint signs that say “Leave nothing here but footprints”, but unfortunately that is never what happens.

I remember one extremely sunny day when my daughter was at the beach with my mother while I was working. I went down after 5 pm and there were thousands of people on the beach and in the water. The entire beach was littered with empty drink cartons, soiled nappies and discarded towels, buckets and spades. I was a councillor at the time and knew only too well that we had issues with water quality at Ayr beach and that, if that litter was not collected, it would all be washed out to sea that night.

I put out a call on my social media and thankfully around 40 volunteers turned up with under an hour’s notice to meet at 6 pm at the beach, once most of the crowds had gone. We removed the rubbish so that it did not go out to sea. It would have been impossible for the council workers to remove all the litter from every beach in South Ayrshire that evening.

As a ward councillor, I also held Ayr town centre blitzes once a month to highlight the problem with litter on private property, which is outwith the council’s responsibility. A group of volunteers and I committed just one hour on a Saturday when we would go to private properties, such as tracks to the train station and private car parks, which many people walk through, and remove litter. In some months, depending on how many volunteers turned up, we collected more than 40 bags of rubbish in one hour. We left Ayr a better place, and we felt better about it.

Many of us have civic pride and want to clean the world, but it should not be left for just a few to do. We must all have civic pride, and the desire and responsibility, to look after not only our communities but our nation, other countries that we visit and, collectively, our world.

Kenneth Gibson has already explained how the scheme works. An individual organisation adopts a small stretch of road, taking responsibility for picking up the litter and keeping it clean. Those organisations can contribute to the community and businesses can get promotion and advertising out of it.

There has been huge uptake of the scheme in the USA, with every state having an adopt-a-road programme. The state of Texas led the way with its slogan “Don’t mess with Texas”, encouraging people to put their litter in the bin and take pride in their area. As Kenneth Gibson said, 120,000 people in California have taken part, removing litter and graffiti and planting trees and wildflowers along more than 15,000 miles of roadside.

As I have said, it is not realistic to expect the council to clean up every bit of litter across its area. I think that the adopt-a-road programme would prove successful in South Ayrshire because it would allow individuals and groups to split up what is a large area, caring for a small part of it. It is a sad sight to drive along a road with plastic bottles and crisp packets lying everywhere. It reflects badly on our area and on the country as a whole when visitors see that.

The people of Scotland have already shown that they will engage with moves to address the problem. In my constituency, Alloway Rotary, the Rotary Club of Ayr, Prestwick Community Council and the friends of Troon have been doing such work for many years. That demonstrates the community spirit that the people of Scotland have.

I conclude with this quote:

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”