Chamber and committees

The number of fatal fire casualties per million of population has been on a long-term downward trend in each nation since the early 2000s. In the early 2010s, that trend levelled off, but the different demographics and urban and rural profiles of each nation are the likely factors that explain the different rates for fires. The Scottish Government will continue to work with the FBU and the SFRS to ensure that they have the money that they need to keep communities safe.

The £36 million savings figure for 2026-27 that has been quoted by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s chief officer is based on various assumptions about inflation, pay increases and future funding levels, all of which can change over time. The resource spending review provides long-term indicative spending plans for the Scottish Government, based on the challenging financial situation that we currently find ourselves in. Although it is appropriate for the SFRS to assess its long-term planning up to 2026-27 on that basis, that assessment does not replace the annual budget that is presented to the Parliament. The amount that is allocated to the SFRS in the annual budget will be based on a robust assessment of need—as was the case for 2023-24, when we gave it an extra £14.4 million.

Ensuring that our firefighters are properly trained and equipped is a ministerial priority in the “Fire and Rescue Framework for Scotland 2022”. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has an assistant chief officer with dedicated responsibility for training, to properly address that strategic priority. Some aspects of training fell behind as a result of the Covid restrictions, but the service is addressing that backlog as a priority.

His Majesty’s Fire Service Inspectorate in Scotland carries out independent inspections of fire service activity, and training is examined as part of the HMFSI service delivery area inspection programme. The “Inspection of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service: East Service Delivery Area” report was published on 19 October, and the service will be taking forward all the recommendations that that report contains.

Firefighters’ safety and wellbeing are a priority for the Scottish Government and the fire service. The SFRS continues to make progress with its contamination working group, and I was pleased that we were recently able to contribute £56,000 to allow Scottish firefighters to be part of the current health screening trials.

Since 2017-18, there have been substantial year-on-year increases in funding to support the SFRS to create a modern and effective fire and rescue service. The annual budget for the SFRS for 2023-24 is more than £55.3 million higher than it was in 2017-18. I highlight to Sharon Dowey that, during First Minister’s question time on 26 October, the First Minister made it clear that

“We continue to invest in our fire service. I want to thank and pay tribute to the FBU and to our firefighters on the ground. I will continue to promise them that we will, as long as we are in Government, continue to ensure that they get the investment that they need to keep”

the community

“safe.”—[Official Report, 26 October 2023; c 16.]

I recognise the role that the Fire Brigades Union plays in highlighting the concerns of its members, including in the publication of its “Firestorm” report. I agree with many points in that report—including that our firefighters should be paid a fair wage for the work that they do and should be properly trained and equipped to deal with the wide range of emergency incidents that they attend.

As I said in my previous answer, the more than £368 million that we are providing to the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service this year is an increase of £14.4 million on last year. The Scottish Government will continue to support the SFRS to prioritise public safety.

I met the FBU in June, I met it today, I met it last week, and I am meeting it again next month. Not getting around the table with the FBU is not an issue. I am always having discussions with it.

I will conclude. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service continues to perform well, and I firmly believe that it is in everyone’s interests to have an efficient and effective service. The Government will ensure that fire and rescue is a priority, both now and in the future.

I finish where I started, by commending all those who work in the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and by thanking our firefighters for their dedication and work, day and night, to keep people and communities safe.

I would like to make a little bit of progress, if I may. I have a lot to address, given all the contributions to the debate.

I turn to some of the issues that have been raised, starting with the budget. Since 2017-18, there have been substantial year-on-year increases in funding to support a modern and effective fire and rescue service. In the budget for 2023-24, the Scottish Government provided the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service with a total of £14.4 million in additional funding, bringing the total funding to £368 million this year, despite the challenging financial environment that we are in due to United Kingdom Government austerity and inflation. It is clear that all our public services have been hit by the inflationary pressures. That has meant that the SFRS has had to look at making efficiencies to deliver a balanced budget. That is the case across every single portfolio at the moment.

Although we have a cash increase of £1.7 billion in the 2023-24 budget, the impact of sustained inflation meant that, in real terms, the block grant at the time the budget was set was 4.8 per cent lower than it was in 2021-22. The UK Government’s autumn statement must take more substantive action to increase investment in the services that people rely on. It must feed into our budget so that we can better align spending and deliver for people and organisations across the whole of Scotland.

As long as Scotland’s public finances are tethered to the decisions of the Westminster Government, we will always be working with one hand behind our back. We must balance the budget each year, and we are committed to doing all that we can, within the powers at our disposal, to ensure that public finances are on a sustainable path. In relation to future budgets, as members know, that will be part of the annual budget.

Thanks to continued UK Government austerity, these are difficult financial times, and money is likely to continue to be tight for the next year. Limited levers are available to us to increase our spending power in the face of the UK Government’s failure to ensure that public spending responds to the real challenges that everyone’s lives are facing. We recognise that that means taking tough choices to ensure that our resources are focused on the three critical missions that are outlined in the policy prospectus, and driving reform to secure value for money for the taxpayer.

The financial position on capital funding is equally challenging. I am sure that we would all like to see the fire service—along with transport infrastructure, schools, prisons and hospitals—receive additional funding. That illustrates the difficult choices that need to be made on the allocation of scarce resources. We have maintained the SFRS capital budget at £32.5 million, and we will continue to strive to provide the SFRS with the funding that it needs to ensure that firefighters have the equipment and buildings that they need to keep people safe.

I turn to pay and firefighter numbers. I am pleased to say that, in February 2023, firefighters accepted an improved two-year pay offer of an increase of 7 per cent for 2022-23 and 5 per cent for 2023-24, to run to the end of June 2024. We are maintaining front-line services with a higher number of firefighters than there are in other parts of the UK. On 31 March 2022, there were 11.3 firefighters per 10,000 population in Scotland, 6.1 in England, and 8.4 in Wales.

A number of members have brought up the issue of the number and location of fire appliances. The number that is needed to keep communities safe is obviously an operational matter for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. [Interruption.] I hear Richard Leonard’s points, but it would be totally inappropriate for me to get involved with operational matters. I am sorry. I am involved with its budget from the Scottish Government, but not with operational decisions.

I am aware that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has recently withdrawn 10 appliances. It is important to highlight that those changes are not all about saving money. By withdrawing appliances in a planned and measured way, the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service can ensure that full crews are available, so more appliances can always be available to keep communities across Scotland safe.

Those operational changes were implemented at the start of September. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has said that they were chosen to minimise the impact on communities.

In some areas, as we know, there has been an overprovision of resources in comparison with the rest of the country. It is right for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to look to deliver effective and efficient services that deliver value for money for taxpayers and the public purse. His Majesty’s chief inspector of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has provided independent assurances that those temporary changes are based on a robust analysis of activity level, historical demand and the ability to supplement any initial responses within an acceptable time.

I say to Stuart McMillan and Mercedes Villalba that I was in Aberdeen this morning for the annual performance review of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, and that issue was brought up. The service committed to a full public consultation on any permanent changes.

On Claire Baker’s comments about whether the situation is being reviewed, the service is constantly reviewing, and I have had an assurance from the SFRS on the withdrawal of the 10 appliances.

It is also important to note that the changes are being made in the context of the reduction over the past 20 years in fires and fire deaths in all domestic premises.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I have a lot to get through.

Fires and fire deaths in all domestic premises have reduced in the past 20 years. Statistics that came out today show that there were 26,825 fire incidents in 2022-23, which is a decrease of 3.5 per cent on the previous year; that there has been an 11.9 per cent decrease in the number of primary fires over the past 10 years; and that dwelling fires have consistently reduced over the past 10 years, with a 26.1 per cent reduction since 2012-13.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I want to address some points that members have made. Is that all right? I do not know how I am going for time.

Does Sharon Dowey acknowledge that the £36 million in savings that is based on the assumption of inflation pay increases is from the resource revenue that is predicted for the next five years and is not the actual budget?