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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 2436 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

The judiciary are raising important constitutional principles about the separation of powers between the Executive, the legislature and the judiciary, and we recognise the absolute necessity of those principles. It is important to be clear about what the bill does: it does not impinge on the independence of the legal profession or the judiciary. I wrote to the committee on 29 November to make clear my intention to amend the bill to address the issues.

The bill builds on the existing legislative framework, which provides a role for ministers to act in the public interest to ensure that regulation is being carried out effectively and transparently. The bill adopts existing checks and balances that require the Lord President’s consent and parliamentary scrutiny of use of delegated powers to ensure that any action is in the interests of legal practitioners and the public.

Ministers have had a role in legal regulation in Scotland since 1990. In 2007 and in 2010, Parliament placed further functions on the Scottish ministers in respect of legal services regulation. Having said that, we understand the concerns that have been raised, which is why we have committed to lodging amendments at stage 2, because we want the bill to strike the right balance for the various stakeholders.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

When we made the decision back in August, officials did start to engage with stakeholders and with the Lord President’s office about the sections that were highlighted and about where to make amendments and come to an agreement.

I appreciate what Ms Gallacher says, but when the bill was introduced, I felt that there was strong opposition to the ministerial powers in the bill and, when Esther Roberton gave evidence to the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, she did not believe that ministers should have a role. I did not want that to detract from the general principles of the bill—although, in a way, it has done that. The general framework of the bill, which will renew the Scottish legal complaints system and make it easier for consumers, is all good and we can move forward and focus on that. I was just trying to take away the part about Scottish ministerial powers. As I said, we will update the committee about any progress on that as soon as we can.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

I saw the evidence from Bill Alexander, who said that it was challenging and sometimes traumatic for the Association of Commercial Attorneys to become a regulator. I think that that is the only organisation to have become a regulator since 1980. I also saw that Lady Dorrian said that it should be challenging to go through that process, so I think that we are striking a balance.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

I do not believe that it does so. As the committee heard in evidence last week, the Lord President already has a significant role in the oversight and regulation of legal services, which is not the same as directly regulating the provision of legal services. The Lord President is not involved in the day-to-day regulation of legal services: he has oversight of some aspects of the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission but does not consider determining complaints, so I do not believe that that alters the general principles of the bill.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

Sure. It might be easiest if I point the committee to the evidence that has been heard across the board welcoming the changes to make the complaints system easier. Neil Stevenson, the SLCC’s chief executive, said that the bill takes

“tremendous steps forward that will reduce complexity and give”

the commission

“extra discretion to deal with particular situations, which should benefit consumers and practitioners.”

Rosemary Agnew, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman, said that the bill’s approach in relation to quality assurance and continuous improvement is

“not just best practice—it enables the development of best practice.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 14 November 2023; c 8, 23.]

Rachel Woods of the Law Society of Scotland said:

“We welcome the changes that it brings in with regard to making the system faster and more streamlined, and less complex”

for the consumer. She welcomed

“the ability for the Law Society to raise and begin investigating a complaint directly”,

and she welcomed the reintroduction of hybrid complaints, which she said will, for the consumer,

“speed things up and make things less expensive”.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 21 November 2023; c 22-23.]

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

I could go into all the different sections in further detail, but the information is outlined in the letter to the committee.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

I will bring in Jamie Wilhelm to answer that question.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

Yes, I recognise that, and that is why I will be eager and keen to share where we are with each of the sections that will be amended, as my letter of last week said. As we make progress and come to agreement with our stakeholders and the Lord President, I will be happy to keep the committee updated on all progress, so that you can take a view on that for your stage 1 report.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

Absolutely.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Siobhian Brown

Yes—absolutely. My officials are having discussions with the Lord President’s office. Any such amendments will affect other parts of the bill, which is why we have to engage on all aspects of moving forward with the amendments. There is not a straight cut to remove one function and give it to the Lord President; we have to consider the whole bill while we are drafting the amendments.