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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 November 2025
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Displaying 1344 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I will move on, and I will ask Duncan Dunlop to respond to this question first. Some of the submissions to the committee said that there needs to be clarity on the bill’s proposal for guidance in relation to care experience to ensure that it is effective. You touched on that earlier. There was also a range of views about who should be included in any proposed definition.

How can the Scottish Government ensure that the provisions have a positive impact on care-experienced people, and how do you suggest work to decide on a definition—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Duncan Dunlop has mentioned advocacy and Jo Derrick has spoken about aftercare, and both have made important points. I previously used an example of kids who are about 15 or 16 who were ready for the transition. They had issues with housing and concerns about what their next step in life would be, and very little support was provided. Getting that start in life could have made a huge impact on them.

There is another question about geographical differences. The care that someone will be provided will be very different in rural Aberdeenshire or the Highlands and Islands compared to urban Glasgow and Edinburgh. We have not really discussed that, but we need to ensure that the level of care, support and advocacy is not impacted by geography.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Margaret Smith, in previous meetings, we have heard about the role of advocacy and about whether it should be independent. We see people who are care experienced going on to be advocates for people who are entering or coming out of the system.

What are your thoughts are on that point? I think that it is very relevant. Like George Adam, I was a councillor for 15 years, so I have seen that role close up. What are your thoughts on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I mean your thoughts about how that can follow on from the care experience, because there are not many better advocates or people to assist than those who have been through the system themselves.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

If no one else wants to come in on that point, I will hand back to the convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Jo, do you have any views on the point about the UNCRC in the context of aftercare?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I want to touch on advocacy, which I know that Pam Duncan-Glancy was going to move on to. I do not know whether you heard the evidence in the previous evidence session. My background is 15 years as a councillor, during which I dealt with situations involving kids with care experience; advocacy was a really important part of their journey, not only for them but for their families. Section 4 of the bill talks about new

“rights of access to care experience advocacy services”,

with that right shaped by secondary legislation. What would that secondary legislation look like?

The other key thing is that this is almost an urban versus rural discussion, because advocacy services are probably much easier to access in urban areas than in rural ones. When we spoke to the sheriff in the previous evidence session, we found that this also related to section 18, which is on advocacy in the hearings system. Is there confusion on that point? What are your thoughts on that?

Claire Burns, I will come to you on that question and then open it up to anybody else who wants to come in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I do not know whether Maria Galli or Kate Thompson wishes to come in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

It does. Before I come to David Mackie to ask about the hearings system, I want to highlight a key point that I discussed when I met Who Cares? Scotland. As someone who represents East Lothian, which is a mix of urban and rural, I think that it is probably easier for someone to access an advocacy service in Edinburgh or Glasgow than it is for someone in the Highlands. There is not a one-size-fits-all approach to provision.

What are your thoughts on that? Independent advocacy is important, but provision needs to be as universal as possible across the whole of Scotland, and that will not be as easy in remote areas.

I will get your thoughts on that and then come to David Mackie on the hearings system.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I want to build on some of the discussions that we have had about advocacy services and to delve a little bit deeper into that issue. Having been a councillor for 15 years and having spoken to families and care-experienced children, I know that that is really important, but it is now complex.

Section 4 of the bill mentions

“rights of access to care experience advocacy services.”

It is a complex area, as we know, and there are also advocacy services for children’s hearings, which are covered in section 18 of the bill. Several organisations, including The Promise Scotland, have commented to an extent on the new rights of access to care experience advocacy services that will be shaped by secondary legislation. What will those services look like in practice? Secondary legislation will be an important part of determining that. How will those services interact with section 18 of the bill, which covers advocacy in the hearings system? Given that we have started to discuss the system, it is an important point.