Chamber and committees

I, too, agree with the overall finding of the Economy and Fair Work Committee, which welcomes what the bill could do. However, that can be considered only a cautious welcome. Notwithstanding the reply from the minister a short while ago, there is considerable mileage between “could” and “will”, especially when one considers the finance pillar, so I will limit most of my comments to that.

It is worth quoting the wording on what the finance pillar concerns. It is about

“Ensuring that flows of investment and financial institutions work for local people, communities, and businesses.”

On rereading the stage 1 report and the minister’s reply today, I thought that perhaps not enough consideration had been given to financial institutions. Of course consideration has been given to the role of public sector bodies in directing funding, but the private sector—still a vital lifeline for access to finance—should also be considered. The traditional high street banks typically allocate a very small fraction of their lending to social enterprise, which means that they need to rely on specialist lenders or, more frequently, on their own retained earnings, grants and impact on investment. As the FSB noted, and as the minister knows, access to finance is still a critical issue, particularly for SMEs.

Much more thinking also needs to be done about how local authority pension schemes might be used. As the minister knows, there are specific considerations on that in Scotland. For example, there is no specific pooling policy, as there is in England and Wales. The Scottish Government’s local investment guidance indicates interest in scaling up local projects but, without statutory guidance, we will see no movement, especially when we consider risk-return criteria, which are vital for those pension schemes.

The use of credit unions for funding is still problematic and will continue to be, given their lack of experience and bandwidth. To be honest, I do not see that changing.

The committee’s report sought further guidance on the role of local authority pension schemes, credit unions, community bonds, such as the current pilot by South Lanarkshire Council to match citizens’ investments and guarantee projects, and on share issues. I would add to that employee buy-outs. It would be useful to hear further reflection on how the minister might approach all those matters in his closing remarks. In that regard, I noted Willie Coffey’s comments on what is happening in his area.

I sympathise a great deal with the comment from COSLA that we could run the risk of the bill becoming a “tick box exercise”. I echo the sentiment of members thus far that the bill has some way to go before it can have real impact.

COSLA also made an excellent point about the culture change that is required to fully embed community wealth building. A change in culture is very complex and difficult to achieve. To be honest, I do not see a recognition of that in any of the Government statements thus far. Culture change is a bold change.

Finally, I reiterate the need for disaggregated data collection for women-led businesses. I am disappointed that the Scottish Government is not doing more to mandate data collection in that regard. The minister noted that AccelerateHER, sponsored by me, is at in the Parliament this week. That organisation fundamentally aims to close the investment gap for women founders and help them to scale their businesses. However, if we do not collect the data, we cannot make a change. I urge the minister to consider that.

To ask the Scottish Government, in light of the demand for neurodevelopmental assessments and treatment for children and adults, what its assessment is of the recommendations by the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland, such as its four-tiered service model for assessment and intervention. (S6O-05171)

Thank you. I will open this out to both of you, given that Steve Aitken has a very established company. I would like to finish off by exploring what you see as the critical factors in terms of skills and the ecosystem that have enabled you to operate as you do and which, critically, could enable Scotland to compete globally in this area. If we think of other industries, we cannot compete in certain areas at scale, but this is an area where we can compete. I ask Steve to answer that first. I have looked at your background, so I know what it is.

Good morning. I thank both our witnesses for joining us. I will come to you first, Leo. Originally, our papers showed that Ziyad, who I think is a partner of yours, was to appear for Mamba Sounds, but I think that you are appearing under a different company name today. It would be useful, first of all, to understand what you are doing in the AI space and why, and what has brought you to this point.

It makes complete sense. This session follows our earlier session with Kayla-Megan Burns, who is a board member specialising in AI for the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. It would be useful to understand the scale of the problem and the implications for the people in the artistic sector of fraudulent activity around their material.

We also heard from Dex Hunter-Torricke in our earlier session, who said that he could see the possibility of one person operating a company that would have turnover of $1 billion with effective utilisation of AI.

It would be useful to understand the scale of the problem, where you see yourself operating and why you think that the new product that you are looking at could fit into that niche.

Thank you. I will hand back to the convener.

There was so much in that answer. Working on the basis that, almost regardless of what people do, it will already be too late, I get the sense from what you are saying that we should not get in the way of the disrupters who will manage to create sole-employee, billion-dollar companies. However, when it comes to the utilisation of AI in the public sector, trust is a much bigger consideration. In the context of some of the use cases that the public sector deals with, getting it wrong could have catastrophic consequences with regard not only to the data, but to society’s trust in government and all that that entails.

I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

You make an important point. Before I was elected, I did some primary research into the perception of Scotland’s global diaspora, with about 1,200 participants across 72 countries. One of the big themes that came out was about the trust factors in relation to Scotland as a place to do business and Scots as people to do business with. That is something that we can trade on, because it is a currency that has high value in today’s world.

I return to my point. Leo, you are younger and we all hope that you have a great career and future ahead of you. What have you seen in the skills that you have been able to learn and the ecosystem that has supported you that gives you confidence that Scotland can compete globally in this space?

Good morning. It is an absolute privilege for us to get the benefit of some of your precious time this morning.

I want to come to Dex Hunter-Torricke first. Your hinterland is quite startling, and you have recently started working with the Treasury. Given the private sector career that you have had thus far, what is your perspective as someone who has come in and engaged with the public sector?

Our Scottish Government is working on an AI strategy and plan at the moment, and I suspect that the challenge that it faces is what to make a priority when everything feels as though it is a priority and when you yourself have said that AI integration is more than a technology. What advice would you give the Scottish Government?

There are a lot of follow-up questions that I could ask, but I want to bring in Kayla-Megan Burns.

Earlier, you mentioned some statistics. I know that some of them came from the report on the RSNO’s economic impact, because we held an event on that last week in Parliament, but it would be useful to know, for the record, where the other statistics came from.