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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 July 2025
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Displaying 1690 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

I am labouring the point because, until the issue came up this morning, I had heard a narrative that was about the UK university sector. If you look at the question from a financial perspective and consider Scotland’s level of average gearing, which I did after the first session, the risk in Scotland is utterly and fundamentally different from that in the rest of the UK. It is therefore not true to say that the risks to institutions in Scotland are the same.

Thank you for clarifying the role of university courts. Does the Scottish Funding Council set fiscal rules for colleges in respect of the attitude to debt and deficit? I want to understand that point, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

That leads to my next question, which is on what I would term fiscal flexibilities for colleges. We have heard a lot of talk about our being stuck in a trap as more money is needed at a time when we know that the wider financial environment is challenging. What is your thinking in relation to fiscal flexibilities, particularly for colleges, especially given that they are public sector bodies? Are you discussing and considering those issues?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Yes—that is part of the issue. What sort of non-financial support would you benefit from getting from the Scottish Government? As this is a pre-budget session, we are terribly focused on the finance, but are there areas where you would like to see more non-financial support? I perhaps alluded to that by mentioning fiscal flexibilities, but there could be other areas as well.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Where is that set, then? Is that set in articles of association?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

You have been very clear, thank you. I have one last wee question to finish off this section. We have heard a lot of chat in recent months about possibly encouraging Scotland to move to a fee model for universities, similar to what applies elsewhere. However, purely from a business perspective, I was staggered when I went away this morning and looked at the perilous state of some English universities—despite the fee model—because of the gearing ratios. The situation does not seem quite as simple when we start to look at the financial provisioning of education.

How actively are you having conversations with the Government to almost look afresh at how we all get a bit of something that we want, such as flexibility? I appreciate that you have mentioned multiyear funding, which is, rightly, a common refrain. How active are the discussions, not just in your tripartite group? Is there the same sense of urgency?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning and thank you for joining us. I hear what you are saying very clearly, Professor Gillespie. The probability of that risk occurring—that is, an institution failing due to cash-flow shortages or some other financial issue—is low. I am just putting that on the record. Is that correct?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

I am sorry to interrupt but, in that case, how could you be clear in your earlier statement to Willie Rennie, when you said that you did not think that that was likely? I am sorry, but I forget the exact words that you used.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

That is exactly what I would expect to happen. The reason why I may appear slightly startled about that is that there have been dire warnings from elsewhere in the UK, particularly from former UK Government ministers, for example, who are proclaiming that, in their opinion, it is likely that some institutions may fail in England. I presume that those institutions are taking the same mitigation steps as other institutions. That therefore begs the question: in your opinion, what is different in Scotland from what is happening elsewhere in the UK, where that is considered to be a higher probability? I am not clear about that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

You have given us a lot of content, which other members will pick up on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Michelle Thomson

As public sector institutions.