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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 July 2025
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Displaying 2256 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

You will be aware that that is an extraordinarily high figure when we look at industry standards. What plans do you have to change that and by when?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Despite the risk that that incurs. You will be aware that Sex Matters has already sent a letter before action, dated 18 June, giving 14 days’ notice of legal action. I understand that it is in the public domain today that there is a further email to you from For Women Scotland in which it notes that, if you do not take action, it reserves the right to take further action. Therefore, that is two potential further legal cases, and, given the strength of the Supreme Court judgment, we can anticipate the way in which those would go, potentially with a significant loss of public money. I am staggered that you are not acting now and that you are saying that we need to wait, when Baroness Falkner has said so clearly that you should not wait for her guidance.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

But you are accountable—you are the accountable officer—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I referred to the corporate body because its members bear personal liability. How much do you think that has affected their actions? Do you think that, if you bore personal liability, you might have acted as quickly as the corporate body?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

—so do you not think that you should maybe question that advice? You are being told that you should wait for advice, and now you have two concrete threats of legal action. Does that not worry you a wee bit?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Okay. We will wait and see.

I want to ask about the Supreme Court judgment. Obviously, the civil service operates under its four key values, particularly integrity and honesty. I am flabbergasted that, 10 weeks after the Supreme Court judgment, you are not implementing the law. Why is that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

That is contrary to what Baroness Falkner says:

“We have been clear in our public messaging and in direct conversations with duty-bearers, including the Scottish Government, that they should not wait for our guidance but should be seeking to update their policies and practices in the light of the new understanding of the law”.

The EHRC is quite clear that you should not be doing that, and it has emphasised that fact. It is clear that the EHRC has stated that to you, so why are you not doing what it says you should be doing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

How will compliance be measured?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Do you think that that is slightly optimistic, given that most people will have personal devices as well? If what you are describing is advisory, there is nothing to stop them using their personal devices to carry on transacting Government business.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

You alluded to the span of control, in effect. Do you know the rough ratio of that? Is it one to one?