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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 May 2025
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Displaying 2074 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

I will keep asking the question. Just to finish off on that theme, I will give a simple example. I have been enjoying reading the document by Benny Higgins titled “Financing Scotland’s Recovery”. Just as a follow-up, I thought that I would do a wee search in it on references to women and gender, but there is not one mention of those in what I regard as a very good document. That omission is utterly systemic in terms of lending and access to finance and it is an even greater issue than the figures that Susan Murray quoted for venture capital.

I will move on to a related issue. In our conversation, we have touched on focusing on outcomes, and a number of good points have been made about how the fiscal framework perhaps affects outcomes because we need to run a balanced budget rather than focus on a consequentialist ethical approach, if you like. Susan, you commented in your written submission on aligning the national performance framework with the United Nations sustainable development goals. I know that some work is being done on that. It is perhaps about having, as we have discussed, a human rights and diversity focus. Would that alignment go some way to starting to give us more outcome focus in what we are trying to do? Perhaps my question is: how do we get that outcome focus by using the UN SDGs and so on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Thank you. Mindful of the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s reputation for being the most exciting committee, I am going to take it up a level. This is a question for all three witnesses. One of the questions that everyone has been asked to submit on is how the Scottish Government budget should address the different impacts of the pandemic across a number of categories, including age and income. I wonder whether you might answer that question again, but with regard to the impact on women, given the concerns that have been highlighted about key workers and so on. I suspect that Linda Somerville will want to come in first here, but I am certainly interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on how the Scottish budget can address concerns with regard to women.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Obviously, that raises the question of what you would cut to support such pay increases.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Gail, do you want to close this out? How should the Scottish Government address issues specifically relating to women?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Did you want to come in, Alan?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Susan Murray will not be surprised to hear that I want to follow up on her comment about unregistered businesses. It was a fair comment. My perception is that a fair percentage of those businesses would be led by women. Can you put a bit of meat on the bones of the comment that you made on that, before I move on to my main questions?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

I will bring in David Eiser shortly, but I first want to bring out Susan Murray’s important point about what we can do. Although I recognise and agree with the point about the role of private businesses, perhaps the Government can use conditionality. People are talking about that much more frequently, often in relation to net zero, but it could be used much more. We have business organisations that do not even routinely disaggregate their data by gender and then interrogate that, which seems to me to be utterly fundamental.

Both of the other witnesses can come back in after I have given David Eiser a chance to comment, but my point is that it is incumbent on us to try to assist with potential policy options or ideas. Like Susan Murray, I like to keep things simple, so for me it is about what the difference would be that makes a difference, while recognising the huge complexity. David, do you have any thoughts to add on this area?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Post-Covid, there is an opportunity for everyone to think differently.

Does any of the other witnesses have any final reflections on any of the themes that I have touched on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

My first question is quite technical and follows on from our discussion about recognising the whole fiscal landscape. I am genuinely interested in the service concession approach. The joint submission states:

“This is not merely an accounting exercise—it has genuine implications for funding Local Government services into the future”.

It goes on to highlight opportunities in that regard, such as the ability to “invest in assets” and “deliver on net zero”. If those are the opportunities, what are the risks of the approach?

Secondly, are your concerns about the Scottish Government’s review to do with the fact that there is a review, or are you concerned about the timescale, because you would like to see a clear outcome sooner rather than later? I suspect that my question is for Alan Russell initially, but Gail Macgregor might want to come in, too.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.