Chamber and committees

I am entirely familiar with everything that you said, and I have no doubt that it is happening. However, given today’s session and the concerns that have come out of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, it is clear that there has been a mismatch. It is that mismatch that I am pulling out. If it were me, I would be looking carefully at avoiding that mismatch happening again. However, I want to move on, because I know that every colleague wants to come in.

I will pick up on a comment that Daniel Johnson made. I would not necessarily agree about the methodology that is used for projects. We know that the world has moved on from waterfall projects. However, where we have an agile methodology—which is of course sold by the IT consultants as much more flexible—it can often mean that we have increased costs. We are developing multiple prototypes and so costs can mount in that area. The fact that we do not have to do a big, huge analysis project up front, which is then out of date, is sold as a benefit.

I am not entirely sure what fits in where. However, looking at the figures, I notice that—[Interruption.].

My thing has just died, so I have to log in again. I may be able to quote the figures in a minute. However, between the alpha and beta phases, quite a number of prototypes were clearly going on. It looks to me like a disproportionately high number of prototypes, which could even suggest that different personnel were coming in and going out. The whole point of agile methodology is that you develop a prototype and test it and that it is iterative as compared to the old waterfall approach. Perhaps Alan Balharrie will give us more context on that.

However, knowing what you know now, will you ask in future about what is being traded in relation to time, cost and quality?

To follow on from a couple of earlier points, I have a question for Jackson Carlaw. I appreciate that the corporate body sits at accountability level and that a multitude of projects are going on, as Michelle Hegarty set out. However, given what we know now, it is fair to say that the cost of development of the new Parliament website has at least raised some eyebrows and caused some interest. What recommendations will you be looking to put in place on how the corporate body can fulfil its accountability responsibilities more carefully? I am sure that you have reflected on that.

That is not quite an answer to the question that I asked, but I will let it go in order to let other members come in.

My last question, the subject of which we have been dancing around, references the concept of agency. We have alluded to top-down structures and to bodies taking ownership in different ways, but we can think about the matter from a bottom-up perspective. Going back to what Jennifer Wallace said about subsidiarity, rather than thinking about the very bottom of the triangle and the person in the street, how would you go about ensuring that agency is instilled in every touch point of the national performance framework? I am thinking about the issue from a completely different perspective; we have not used the word “agency” in the evidence session today, but it is jumping out at me.

I can see that you are all thinking about that. Who wants to go first?

Does anyone have any last wee comments or anything to add on that?

I do not disagree with what you are saying. I am simply saying that, based on my experience, that is an area in using agile methodologies where costs can be incurred, because you have a multilayering effect. Again, I am very much aware of that from a risk perspective as a former IT project manager—many years ago, I have to concede.

I turn to my last question. In the typical project continuum, you always have a trade-off between cost, time and quality. I would like an honest reflection—perhaps from all of you—on those areas. What did you trade: time, cost or quality? Knowing what you know now, what would you trade? If anyone says that time, cost and quality were all of an equally high standard, I note that all the evidence tells us that that is never the case for IT projects.

I will start with Jackson Carlaw, although I appreciate that he will need to bring his staff in.

It definitely does. It would also be useful to hear some comments from Dr French and Dr Elliott.

Will the member give way on that point?

I read the report of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee with interest but noticed that it did not include all types of housing providers. The Scottish Property Federation has said:

“We believe that the overall impact of this Bill could be to weaken the PRS by fuelling a perception of regulation and risk for investors that will undermine efforts to attract capital investment to the sector.”

As the bill progresses through its stages, could the committee, in making an assessment, reflect further on the impact on all stakeholders and all housing providers?