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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 December 2025
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Displaying 2506 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

We are all pleased to hear about the updated FM. I am sure that we all agree on the worthiness of the bill, but this committee’s specific focus will always be on the money and the spend. You have indicated that there is uncertainty about the original estimates. I want to explore how you see the scale of the challenge going forward. We know that multiple areas of various sections are excluded from the original FM—those areas have no estimates at all. In addition to that, there is the group that you mentioned—I am sorry, but I have forgotten its name.

How will you assure yourself, first, that all costs are included, albeit in estimate form, and secondly, that the costs have taken account of what is now a high inflationary cost environment? Critically, I suppose that the question that I am probing is, to what extent will the FM be given the full weight it deserves, alongside the undoubted enthusiasm for what are some very strong policies?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Leading on from that, your submission also alludes to complexity—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you. I would like to finish off with Professor Flinders, since he was cut off in his prime, as it were. Throughout this whole conversation is the theme of maturity, whether it is about how we deal with risk, innovation, complexity or power. Do you have any final thoughts or reflections on what you have heard thus far? This is the academic side of decision making.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Do you have any bright ideas on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you for that. I am laughing slightly, given that we are operating in a political environment.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

I am sorry. My question is a constituency supplementary question rather than a supplementary question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

My last wee question is for Lucy Hughes. Your submission is excellent. I have asked about this a lot. I will quote you:

“The collection and analysis of intersectional gender-sensitive sex-disaggregated data on women’s experiences is central”

and it carries on. I feel that, in the short time that I have been here, I keep asking the same questions about routinely disaggregating data by sex, but get no further forward. If we do not know what the position is, we cannot begin to move forward. It seems as though we are continually making decisions with one arm tied behind our back. We do not know what the actuality is, because we are not collecting the data that would tell us. Is that your sentiment? What do you say in your submission about the quality of decision making for 51 per cent of our population?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, everybody, and thank you for the very fulsome submissions that you made to this inquiry, which have been noted.

Rachel Le Noan, I want to come to you first. You make an interesting comment in the SCVO submission that it is about trust and power and who has it. You also quote the very interesting statement that trust and parity of esteem should be in “spheres ... not tiers” because,

“When you have tiers, you then have the whole issue around power and who has power and influence.”

Can you think of an example of where that has had practical effect and talk us through it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Okay. I get what you are saying about the scale of representation, and you make that point clear in your submission.

Have there been times when, in terms of line of sight of funding, you have felt that you or any of the organisations that you represent have been required to give what you might see as the right answer or the preferred answer because of the mechanism of funding and fears or uncertainty over that? Is that a general concern or a fear that you hold?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michelle Thomson

Do you think that, in general, the Scottish Government wants a critical friend or is that a statement that it uses but that is a kind of esoteric desire? There is a difference between the two.