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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 July 2025
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Displaying 1690 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and thank you very much for joining us. I, too, was intrigued by your written submission. It is worth quoting one sentence that jumped out, as it is compelling:

“It has to be recognised that inquiries are a source of substantial income for some large legal firms and as such the question arises as to the extent to which they are motivated to keep costs to a minimum and within budget.”

That is a very powerful sentence.

In preparing for this evidence session, I looked up your background and I found that you have a very long and compelling hinterland. Is there any other arena that you have dealt with, in the course of your career, where there is no cost control whatsoever although millions of pounds are involved; where the terms of reference do not ordinarily contain a budget; where there are no stage gates or phasing of the inquiry; and where there is no active monitoring? Have you ever come across that in any other walk of life in your career?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

In the inquiry that you were dealing with, how much pressure did you come under from Government to keep a lid on costs? How much active monitoring was there by Government, or was it you yourselves who were pointing that out? You mentioned that you had to go back and say, “Look—costs are going to increase.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

Obviously, this morning’s session has been about the Scottish budget process in practice. In your earlier remarks, you alluded to the inefficiency of the process. If you were going to adopt a process, I certainly do not know anybody—whether the Fiscal Commission or any other organisation—who would start from this position. However, what always interests me is whether we are able to collect the cost of the inefficiencies.

You said earlier that the devolved institutions are not accorded the same respect as other Whitehall departments when it comes to projecting the UK spending review. What that means is that you will have to make some assumptions. You will have to put the time and effort into doing those and then, presumably, have to redo them when you get told the details, later on.

To what extent are you able to—or do you—collect the costs of that inefficiency in the process, or are you just continually responding to it? I think that focusing on those figures could be quite illuminating, because we all know that we have quite a difficult crisis in public sector funding generally.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

It is about the principle.

You comment in your submission about the further cost of redacting statements and allude to the fact that that is very expensive. It would be useful, given that we are at the start of our inquiry, if you could set out why that is so expensive. Is it simply about time?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

To go back to the convener’s earlier comment, we have seen examples of lawyers acting on behalf of clients making a call in the media—which can be vigorous—for a public inquiry. One can take the view either that the lawyers are doing the right thing for their clients or, alternatively, that they understand that the opening of a public inquiry means that their costs are going to be covered by the Government of the day.

I know that your experience was with Jersey, but are you aware of any checks and balances in the process whereby people think, “Wait a minute—if this action goes to a public inquiry, it is, in effect, a licence to print money”? Were you subjected to checks and balances, or was it you yourselves who were putting the checks and balances in place?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

I have one last wee question. One of the people who gave us evidence commented on the unintended impact of what was called the Maxwellisation process, whereby somebody in the report had the opportunity to have early sight of the report and seek modifications to it. To what extent could that affect the outcome?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

It looks like you want to come in, Victoria—am I right?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

I also went to Bearsden academy, but I will not indulge myself by asking Ian Rogers which teacher he was referring to.

I want to pick up on something that Peter Proud mentioned. I completely agree with what you are saying. I did a music degree and worked as a professional musician for quite a long time. I then did a master’s in IT and ended up in project management in that sector, where I worked my way up the tree.

At that time, that was not typical, but there is now a much clearer understanding that the meta skills that people develop while doing a creative arts degree are transferable. That is my view, because I have been down that path, but I want to explore with you whether you agree with that and whether you think that that is recognised. To return to our questioning about skills provisioning, is there provision for that complex pathway, based on what you see in your software journey?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Michelle Thomson

Peter Proud, I will bring you in next. You are obviously in an entirely different sector and location.