Chamber and committees

I absolutely understand about the principles of fair work. The discussion that you suggest would be helpful because you are at the coal face and you are monitoring the existing investments. The discussion is about your suggestions for how those principles can be deepened to put the community at the heart of things.

I will turn to SNIB. As you explained, you have not made investments, but how would you, by way of your impact assessment, ensure that the community is at the heart of things? To what extent is there a conflict when, obviously, you are skiting across the top looking at a return on your investment and at your debt to equity ratios and so on? I appreciate that this is in principle, given what you said earlier.

Tell me a bit more about your involvement. Also, what is your understanding of GFIB’s governance model?

I was prompted to take part in tonight’s debate when it was discussed at the meeting. I said that I would like to take part, and my good friend and colleague John Mason looked at me in disbelief. He did not say it, but the obvious insinuation was, “You? Camping?”

I put on the record the fact that I have never been glamping and have gone wild camping only infrequently, so I am perhaps a middle-of-the-road campsite camper. As a youngster, I took my dad’s old tent. Members might remember those canvas tents that let in water and weighed a tonne when they were wet. Like many other families, we went camping with friends every year, and I would like to note some of my recollections.

First was the pitching of the tent. I concede that I am the type of person who does not like to ask for directions, so members can imagine how I would feel about being given help with pitching tents. I was always aware of the silent eyes watching my method, particularly if the tent was as big as ours was. I could hear the tutting and sighing and, “I wouldn’t do it that way.” It is all so much easier now with the colour-coded poles.

On the site, I loved the sense of community. Our children made friends easily and the little gangs formed quickly. There appeared to be an unwritten rule that everyone watched out for everyone else’s children. There was also something about cooking outdoors that made the food taste so much better. The wine did, too, but it always resulted in someone tripping over a guy rope on their way back from the toilet in the dark.

The simplicity of camping worked for me. All my life, I have been a voracious reader who can take up residence in a book and switch off. Very quickly, I found that so many of the possessions that I had were simply not needed. It is perfectly possible to have one set of crockery and cutlery; it is entirely possible to wear the same clothes for several days running and to go for a walk in your pyjamas. This quick, keenly priced and accessible route to freedom, and the peace and quiet and removal from the daily burdens of work, parenting and worry were always a gift. I have enjoyed Kenmore and various sites in East Lothian. I tend to veer away from the west coast because of the midgies—I think that we all have midgie stories.

Seriously, though, campsites provide accessible routes for tourists, too, and that is such an important sector for Scotland in bringing jobs and capital and, of course, promoting Scotland’s international brand. It is estimated that about 14 million people visit Scotland each year, with tourism contributing about 5 per cent to our gross domestic product and employing around 7 per cent of Scotland’s workforce. We know that the pandemic increased the number of staycations, but it also provided the opportunity for many Scots to see what a beautiful country they live in. The Scottish accommodation occupancy survey reports compare statistics of caravanners and campers, and show that, although touring pitch occupancy and whole park occupancy in 2022 were down from 2019, caravan pitch occupancy and tent pitch occupancy increased.

Following the pandemic, Brexit and the cost of living crisis, camping can offer a much more economically friendly way to those who are wishing to have a break, and the revenue that is generated stays in Scotland and in local communities.

Lastly, we should give some thought to the small and medium-sized enterprises that are providing camping facilities. The weather is seasonal, but risk management is not. Typical risks that need to be managed include weather events such as floods; infrastructure, such as septic tanks, needs to be maintained; and guests bring risks and their pets do, too. Cash flow and overheads are always a consideration, and that is all after considerable up-front costs. If we value our camping sector, we need to value the SMEs that provide the facilities. I know that I do.

You point out that, if civil servants were seeking clarity, they would need to know that the issue was considerably more complex than it might initially have appeared. That is part of the challenge in getting value from our inquiry. We need to understand the culture and the extent to which such activity is prevalent. Frankly, given what you said about risk taking, it is easier to just come back with a paper. We are talking about civil servants here, because ministers will take advice and accept advice. The issue is about not just capacity but the skills base among civil servants—you made a comment about being agile earlier—and continual improvement, because this is very difficult.

There is an idea, linked to empowerment and accountability, which was brought up earlier. When I was reading your report, I thought about the cultural hierarchy within the wider decision framework being underpinned by relative power bases, which vary, depending on the seniority and power base of the relevant minister. That relates to where that minister fits into Government and the power base of whoever is the ultimate accountable authority. It would be useful to hear your general reflections on how that power can inhibit decision making, particularly in a wider context when a decision requires to be made quickly, which, as we know, also affects the processes.

That is an interesting area for wider consideration.

In the committee, we keep quoting Rumsfeld in relation to “unknown unknowns”. With regard to a Government making an honest assessment of its decision-making capabilities, I sense that there is a disconnect. You said that there is relatively little engagement with academics on best practice. To what extent do you consider it a risk that Governments do not know what they do not know? If they do not ask questions and engage with best practice and other methodologies, they will never know what they do not know.

I have a supplementary question. To what extent do the lack of rationality and the uncertainty, as depicted very effectively by your diagram, suggest that we should almost be applying chaos theory to decision making in Government? It is a serious question.

Good morning. I thoroughly enjoyed your report. I have a daft wee question about something that tweaked my interest. You referred to Moore, who used the term “bureaucratic entrepreneurship”. That struck me as quite the oxymoron. Before I ask my main questions, can you give me a bit more about what on earth he meant by that?

I suppose that, if you are learning from other Governments, you can inquire about the difficult challenges. You gave the example of procurement. Although it is still complex in and of itself, it is easier to put it in a box and to define something as a procurement process.

I think that that is me finished. I could ask questions literally all day, but I know that other members will want to come in.

The ADHD Foundation states that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD in women and girls can have further impacts beyond health, including on their education, employability and economic independence. Given that, does the Scottish Government have any data on the potential impact that such a national pathway roll-out could have on socioeconomically disadvantaged women across health boards throughout the country, for whom the private assessment fees are simply unaffordable? Are there any plans to focus aspects of the roll-out across all health boards to include such groups?