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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 September 2025
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Displaying 2270 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

From the FM.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I understand that. It is basically a phased approach. I saw such an approach a multitude of times in my previous life, and I understand how it works, but I return to the point that we are the finance committee. After you go away today, that is it—unless we ask you to come back with an updated financial memorandum, the matter is away from the committee that has responsibility for ensuring that the costs are understood.

Given that we agree that you are taking a phased approach, how many meetings have you had with the Deputy First Minister to outline the fact that, as we go from year to year, we cannot have any proper sense of what the costs are until we reach a particular point? Does she, in her capacity as finance secretary as well as Deputy First Minister, know that, for the next few years, she will have no idea of the costs of this bill, which we can add to those of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill and the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill? If I were her, I would be quite nervous about that, because, if I were in charge of controlling the costs, I would want to know, or have a good sense of, what was coming down the track. How many meetings have you had with her?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I absolutely understand that. You are describing an enabling bill—you used the term “framework bill”—and strategic-level costs. I get all of that.

I have a last wee question. How do you know that we will get value for money?

Meeting of the Parliament

Education and Skills Reform

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Professor Ken Muir describes Scottish education as “complex and interconnected”. Will the cabinet secretary ensure that the consultation document gives confidence to external stakeholders that change will be co-ordinated across all education and skills bodies?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I am sorry to interrupt, but, in other words, we can anticipate further costings in addition to the 50 per cent update. Minister, given that you correctly highlighted the very challenging fiscal environment that we have, how do you know that the money will be available? What meetings have you had thus far with the finance secretary and the Deputy First Minister?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

I have a tiny supplementary question on that point. It triggered something in me when you said that the rights would be the same for people going through this process—in other words, children, and we are focusing on victims at the moment—as they would be for people going through the criminal process. Have you tested that legally, and have you taken legal advice on that? I can sense a test case emerging whereby, theoretically, they have the same rights. Have you cross-matched the rights of people going through the criminal justice process with the rights of—specifically—victims going through this process?

11:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

If you have not, I would ask you to look at that from a victim-centred perspective, comparing and contrasting, if you are going to say that the rights will absolutely be upheld and be exactly the same as they are in the criminal process. I do not know the answer either, but I am asking that question and there may be a slightly different angle. I will leave it there.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

On that point, what costings are included in the proposal, the letter and the updates to cover salaried chairs and paid volunteers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Michelle Thomson

Thank you for that clarification.