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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 September 2025
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Displaying 2263 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Thank you for that. You are right that we will come on to talk about the reform agenda.

I will follow on from that. In terms of a “lean” to the budget, a specific public sector pay policy has not been published. How will you support agencies that are struggling to set budgets and, as I commented earlier, where there is a real cost to the savings that they need to make? What is your role in supporting them—without the framing of a public sector pay policy?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Yes, we did.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Of course, that is the case not just in schools but in other key stakeholder groupings.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

I will move on. One of the other things that has been talked about is empowerment in the system and a kind of licence to operate, if you like, and how the Scottish Government can create an environment in which teachers are empowered, given that there is a part in the middle where COSLA and local authorities sit. My question is almost from a leadership perspective. What leadership can you put in place to ensure that teachers are empowered? Of course, that translates all the way through the system.

Meeting of the Parliament

Education

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

This morning, during the meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, I heard our colleague Liam Kerr referencing the Conservatives’ new deal for teachers. Is that publicly available or on the Conservatives’ website? Perhaps the member could get a copy to me.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

You have stated that you require all Scottish Government portfolios to set out savings and reform plans. If I were cynical, which, of course, I am, I would suggest that turkeys do not tend to vote for Christmas, so asking those bodies—I think that there are 129 rather than 131, convener—to consider tightening up reform themselves, or even suggesting that they do not need to exist, seems optimistic.

The problem is that, when you create a body, it takes on a life of its own and develops a vested interest. This is a question that I asked the former Deputy First Minister. It is my experience that turkeys do not vote for Christmas so, although public bodies might suggest some tinkering reforms, they will be unwilling—for very obvious reasons—to make the scope and scale of reforms that are really needed for you to achieve some savings. I would appreciate your thoughts on that. That is my final question, convener.

11:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

The outlook for public sector finances is not going to get any better. The Conservatives have guaranteed that, and there are certainly no further offerings from the Labour Party should the UK Government change. Will the cabinet secretary consider, in future years, setting fiscal rules to protect the money from ScotWind?

I am pretty confident that, had various UK Governments been challenged over not building any fund with the oil money, they would have cited public sector pressures in exactly the same way. Will the cabinet secretary consider developing and then sticking to fiscal rules? Otherwise, we will embed ourselves in a financially dependent situation, rather than the opposite. We can look at what Norway has managed to do.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Obviously, I note what you said about levering in additional private investment. That is the money, but we need to have companies that are trading effectively. I also take it that you are describing long-term investments, most likely from pension companies, where there is probably a high demand, so it will take a long time to structure those things.

The other area that has been noted with concern is the rent freeze. That is why some companies, such as Springfield Properties, have moved away from build to rent at present, but build to rent is the only way, or one of the critical ways, in which we can realistically get to the scale of building that we need. I think that businesses are accepting of rent caps, but rent freezes make for a perception of a less benign operating environment than is found elsewhere.

How do you juggle the need for businesses to come back into the market, particularly regarding build to rent, with what I fully understand has been the need to protect people through some very difficult times? That need is, in itself, a function of the chronic issue of supply: that is why rents were going up. It is a cyclical problem. Do you recognise that rent freezes have created a perception that has introduced a cooling in those wanting to proceed with the likes of build-to-rent?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Okay. Obviously, there will be set-up costs, but there is also the need to build in on-going annual funding.

I suppose that my other question alludes to the convener’s opening question. Given some of the constraints on the Scottish Government, have you ever thought of volunteering the Scottish Parliament to place itself on a fixed budget, similar to the Scottish Government’s position?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Michelle Thomson

Some businesses have stated that that is a factor. Two companies that I have mentioned today have made that clear.