Chamber and committees

It is nice to see all the witnesses today. I have a question on gendered budgeting. Providing gender equality in services is often seen as an additional cost, whether that be in social security or in health and women’s refuge services. Some services are not really built around the needs of women, and resources for gender equality are often seen as an extra. They are almost like an extension to policy, rather than part of the foundation on which the policy is built. We can see that clearly highlighted, as Engender alluded to earlier, in the disproportionate impact that the pandemic has had on women. That has been really clear to us over that time. Where do you see progress being made? What is still missing in gendered budgeting? I am sorry to ask another question, but what lessons can we learn from gendered budgeting when considering human rights budgeting?

I have a little preamble before I ask my question. I think that Jim Fairlie was looking at my notes, because he stole my question, but I will go ahead anyway.

I refer to what Pete Ritchie discussed in answering Ariane Burgess’s questions. We have quite a task to include environmental sustainability alongside health and dietary guidelines. That involves not allowing the importation of food that is produced to environmental standards that are lower than those that we have in Scotland and not simply discarding the issue of environmental damage. We need to take the issues of poverty, diet, health and the environment seriously as a package deal.

We have a real problem with food insecurity and food poverty. The Food Foundation has estimated that those in the poorest decile of the population would have to spend 74 per cent of their disposable income to eat according to the Government guidelines for a healthy diet, whereas the figure for the richest decile is just 6 per cent. That is quite a dilemma.

Poverty does not harm only those who live in it; it harms the local economy and the environment overall. How can we square food growers and producers receiving a fair payment and supplying food to people at an affordable price?

I hear a lot about shortening the supply chain. Are there other packages of measures that we could pin down and home in on? Can you give your expertise on that?

Thank you, convener. Sally Shortall spoke a lot about the role that women play in diversifying the sector. I visited a working farm that is diversifying into agritourism. The woman farmer highlighted her farming practices, which have been incredibly successful. The farm is environmentally aware, it reuses and recycles materials to make camping pods, for example, it educates people on the farm and it supports the local economy. It ticks so many boxes. It is an example of a woman’s pragmatic approach taking off when she was given the pathway and the support to do that. Is the gendered lens that is being used helping to open up the often untapped potential and entrepreneurship of women in the sector? How will the work that you have done enhance the whole sector, not just the position of women?

We have heard a lot about conversion therapy on a personal level, and “shame based” is a term that I have heard used to describe it. The fact that conversion therapy is often undertaken within the private sphere makes it difficult to see its full extent. Is there a danger that evidence could be hidden because of the privacy aspect or because of the definitions that were mentioned earlier? Is there anything more substantial that could impact on the evidence base?

Thank you. That is really helpful.

You have answered my second question, which was a follow-up question about the fact that a lot of aspects of the issue are hidden. Is there anything that we could do prior to legislating for a ban? You touched on a few points in that regard, but perhaps you would like to expand on what you said.

You have answered a lot of the questions that I was going to ask, so I have been changing my questions as I go. Thank you for being so clear, direct and articulate. It was really quite moving when you spoke about children in the future, which is what it is all about. You have highlighted the heteronormative lens that we often get trapped in looking through, and you said that homophobia and transphobia are often internalised, which comes from pressure to conform in our heteronormative society.

I keep trying to pin people down on the point that a ban on conversion therapy will need to be supported by a range of non-legislative measures. What more do you think is necessary to support the ban? Do we need any wider support now and in the future?

There has been much research into the potential, particularly on the north-east coast, for seaweed farming—it is a tremendous opportunity for coastal communities to diversify into a new sector. That is just one example of diversification, but seaweed production has grown across the world. Seaweed is being used in an extensive range of products, including eco-products. It also absorbs a significant amount of CO₂, so it can contribute to our net zero target.

On the regulation of newly expanding areas, what is being asked of the fishing community in relation to that diversification in the context of a sustainable marine environment? What other possible diversification is coming to the fore that is not just eco-friendly but economically positive for struggling coastal communities?

I am glad to hear that there has been some forward movement, however tentative. We are all aware of the news reports about fresh seafood rotting in the back of lorries, empty fish markets and boats tied up in harbour. That was upsetting for many people, so it is nice to hear some positivity.

Jimmy Buchan, I know that you have, rightly, been vocal about the issue of labour shortages, which is a massive problem here, on the north-east coast. However, what I really want to get to the bottom of and ask the panel about is the double whammy—it is something that we often hear about and I have used the phrase myself—of Brexit and Covid. For the benefit of the committee, can you clarify exactly what the Brexit issues are and what the Covid issues are? I think that knowing that is essential to enabling us to come up with targeted solutions. What should be prioritised that is within our gift with regard to labour shortages and haulage problems?

I note the extra funding to combat gender violence, particularly as the pandemic exposed more of those vulnerabilities. Such funding is vital. Coming from the angle that the majority of that abuse is committed by men, what will be done to support people not just reactively when they have been abused but proactively to get to the root cause of it? Taking a helicopter type approach, would that be within the remit of the misogyny working group?