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Chamber and committees

Audit Committee, 02 Oct 2001

Meeting date: Tuesday, October 2, 2001


Contents


Audit Scotland (Work Programme)

Item 4 is on the long-term work programme. Members should have a copy of it before them. The deputy auditor general for Scotland, Caroline Gardner, is with us today. I invite her to outline the contents of the programme to the committee.

Caroline Gardner (Deputy Auditor General for Scotland):

This is the first time that the committee has seen our proposals for a future work programme. Until now, the work that members have seen has been the result of issues such as the national health service in Tayside, or Moray College, or of work that was started under the previous audit arrangement of the Accounts Commission for Scotland and the National Audit Office—before the Auditor General's post was established and Audit Scotland was set up to provide services to him.

The future work programme will be annual from now on. That will provide a chance for the committee to give us its views on what it thinks is a priority for us to consider and a chance for us to give the committee a picture of how our work hangs together across the programme rather than just report by report.

The work programme contains proposals for the planned performance audit work that we intend to carry out between now and December 2002. That work has two purposes: to provide assurance on how well public bodies are performing and to act as a catalyst for improvement where there is room for that.

The programme includes studies that are for both the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission for Scotland and it contains a number of deliberately identified studies. It capitalises on the ability of both to look jointly across the public sector at policy areas and services that involve local government, the health service and a range of other bodies, to give independent evidence on how well performance is going. For the first time, we are capitalising on the fact that Audit Scotland, on behalf of the Auditor General, and the Accounts Commission for Scotland cover most of the public services and they are not being restricted by traditional boundaries.

It is important to note that the programme does not include either the audit review work that comes out of issues that need to be investigated in the short term, such as the situation relating to the NHS in Tayside or the Moray College work that you are considering today, or the overview reports that you will be getting on a routine basis, which pull together the important messages coming out of the audits of health service bodies or further education colleges. You will get those in addition to this planned programme of forward work.

The programme is based on a couple of key sources of information. The first is the consultation exercise that you may have been aware of over the summer. We wrote to most of our stakeholders in the Scottish public sector, asking for their views on what it was important for us to examine. We also have a range of criteria, which have been agreed by the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, that cover obvious elements such as the amount of money that is spent on a particular service, the impact that that has on citizens and service users and the evidence that there is room for improvement, either because there is variability between bodies or because of comparisons with other countries.

We have deliberately included in the programme a balance between starting new work in new areas and ensuring that we are protecting time to follow things such as the out-patients work that you have heard about today and other studies that you have seen in the past 18 months. We have also tried to build in a balance between studies that examine the effectiveness of big areas such as special educational needs or youth justice and studies that are more focused on management efficiency improvements such as those relating to hospital catering, the improvement of which is important to patients but which is not as complex or wide-ranging an issue as, for example, youth justice.

We are committed to determining whether there are equality issues that we should be picking up on in each study at the stage at which we are scoping them and agreeing the project specification. Such issues might be to do with obvious areas such as ethnicity, gender and disability but they might also be to do with limited access to services due to rurality or income.

The proposals are on the second page of the sheet that you have before you and fall into two main groups. The first couple of columns of on-going work and follow-up work list items that the committee has already seen or inherited when the audit arrangements came into place. We are committed to further consideration of out-patient services, waste management, medical equipment and so on. The final two columns detail the projects that we are proposing to start work on in the near future and a few areas on which we might do some more scoping work to ensure that we are clear about what the issues are and what the benefits would be of investing our resources in them.

At this stage, we would welcome your comments on whether our suggestions are in touch with the committee's priorities. We will report back to you with a more detailed programme once the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission have agreed their proposals and we have done some more resource planning.

How did you decide on the new projects and the areas on which further scoping is required? Did you use the feedback that you got from the stakeholders or were they suggested by Audit Scotland?

Caroline Gardner:

There is a balance. We consulted our stakeholders because we are keen to know what people who work in the services and set policy think. We also asked organisations such as the Scottish Consumer Council for their views. However, that is not the only basis on which we made our decisions: issues such as early retirement will not have been given a high rating by people working in councils but it is an area that we believe it important to consider.

We also took account of the criteria that we have set, which relate to how much is spent in an area and what impact that has on service users. We try to balance all of that with the view of the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission to arrive at a programme that we can deliver with the resources that we have.

Mr Raffan:

Special educational needs can be seen as a cross-border issue as, since the change in local authority structures, a number of local authorities collaborate on the issue. In my part of Scotland, there is considerable concern about the variation in special educational needs provision. As well as the cross-border issues, there are cross-cutting issues. I do not expect to see that in the paper before us, of course. Numerous items that might be included are not in the paper—drug misuse, for example, on which the Scottish Executive has made significant announcements of additional money in the past year. There is concern about how that money is to be spent and how an equality of service can be delivered throughout the country. Those are the kinds of cross-cutting issues—which is the trendy term of the moment—and cross-border issues that you are focusing on.

Caroline Gardner:

Absolutely. For the first time there is an audit body that is able to look across councils, the health service, the Scottish Executive and its agencies. We have tried to consider the areas that were not easy to get at before, because they often account for a lot of money and have a substantial impact on the people who are affected by their services. We are keen to build into the approach to each study a demonstration of variation between areas, because that often suggests where there is room for improvement. People who are not doing as well may have good reasons for their poorer performance, but they may have room to raise their game and reach the level that is being achieved by the best. We would always build in that cross-boundary comparison, as well as cross-cutting in a single area.

I have a question about the new projects, particularly those that are joint studies. I have an interest in special educational needs. With whom will that study be jointly carried out?

Caroline Gardner:

I should have made that clear. We are proposing that the joint studies be done by Audit Scotland for both the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission. The Accounts Commission still has responsibility for the audit of local authorities. By making them joint agreed studies, we can consider the local authority role alongside what is happening with health services, psychology provision, for example, and any other local partners. The same applies to the report on youth justice. We can include the council dimension, rather than have to consider the policy or the Scottish Court Service exclusively.

Was that informed by submissions that you received, perhaps from the voluntary sector, in response to your consultation document?

Caroline Gardner:

We had some response from those groups, who suggested that it would be a worthwhile study, but we were particularly interested in the presumption for mainstreaming in special educational needs. It may well be possible to provide a good quality of service to those children in mainstream schools, but it certainly needs careful planning and perhaps additional resources. We are interested in how that is being balanced to ensure that children's needs are being met in mainstream schooling.

Mr Quinan:

I am happy to hear that that is the basis from which you are considering the issue. Much as mainstreaming is a laudable desire in certain areas, the implications in other areas, where mainstreaming is simply not applicable in terms of cost, for example, would be interesting to know.

The Convener:

The committee has had a trailer of forthcoming attractions. I thank Audit Scotland for a comprehensive and detailed report, covering a range of topics from the NHS to education, housing and the environment, in addition to specific topics yet to come. On behalf of the Parliament and the people, we wish you well in your work.