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Chamber and committees

Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Nov 2007

Meeting date: Tuesday, November 27, 2007


Contents


Delegated Powers Scrutiny


Public Health etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The Convener (Jamie Stone):

Good afternoon and welcome to the 13th meeting of the Subordinate Legislation Committee in the third session of the Parliament. I have received apologies from Richard Baker and Jackson Carlaw. As usual, I ask everyone to turn off their mobile phones.

Before we consider the bill, I ask members if they would stay back after the formal part of the meeting. It might be appropriate to spend a few minutes discussing what we heard last week and considering our approach.

I refer members to the summary of recommendations.

This is the first time that the Subordinate Legislation Committee in the third session of the Parliament must consider a bill that contains significant delegated powers. We are all in new territory. With members' permission, I will take us through the bill carefully, because my general impression is that quite wide powers would be delegated to the Scottish ministers. We should also be careful because the bill deals with public health and raises sensitive issues to do with personal information.

On section 3, "Designation of competent persons by health boards", are members content that the power is delegated and that it is subject to the negative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

On section 5, "Designation of competent persons by local authorities", are members content that the power is delegated and that it is subject to the negative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

On section 12, "Lists of notifiable diseases and notifiable organisms", are members content with the power to amend the lists in schedule 1?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Are members content to seek further explanation from the Scottish Government for its claim that the negative procedure would be appropriate, given that speed of action would be required, and to ask the Government to explain its reasons for framing the power to remove diseases and organisms from the scope of the bill without a need for ministers to have assessed the impact on the risk to public health?

Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP):

The committee should draw ministers' attention to the final item in the list of notifiable organisms in part 2 of schedule 1. The term,

"Any other clinically significant pathogen found in blood",

is open to a wide variety of interpretations and could cover socially significant matters. Given that a person who did not co-operate in relation to the list would be subject to criminal procedure, we should ask the Government exactly what it means and whether it is happy with the phrase.

The Convener:

Right. We note Ian McKee's comment.

On section 19, "Notifiable diseases etc: further provision", are members content to ask the Scottish Government to justify the width of the power, to explain in what circumstances it envisages exercising the power, and to say whether the scope of the power could be narrower? Does the committee also want to seek justification from the Scottish Government for the use of the negative procedure for such a wide power to amend primary legislation?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Section 25, "Supplementary", is on investigatory powers. Are members content to invite the Scottish Government to provide further justification for the width of the provision, which would allow ministers to confer any power that they considered necessary for a public health investigation, with no apparent restrictions? It is right and proper that we probe that provision.

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Given the power to modify any enactment in the course of conferring additional functions by regulations made under section 25(3), are members content to ask the Scottish Government to clarify whether it is intended that such powers could conflict with or undermine the powers that would be conferred by sections 22 to 24?

Members indicated agreement.

Are members content to invite the Government to comment on and provide further justification for its approach?

Members indicated agreement.

Are members content to seek further justification from the Scottish Government on the appropriateness of the negative procedure for such a wide power to amend primary legislation?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The use of the negative procedure is becoming a theme.

We move on to section 56, "Compensation for voluntary compliance with request", and section 57, "Compensation for persons subject to certain orders". Are members content to ask the Scottish Government to clarify the extent of the powers on compensation and how it envisages that they will be exercised? Are members also content to invite the Scottish Government to consider altering the wording of the provisions, to remove doubt about the extent of the powers?

Members indicated agreement.

On section 68, "Notice on occupier or owner of infected etc premises or things", are members content that the power is delegated and that it is subject to the negative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

On section 71, "Power of local authority to disinfect etc premises or things", are members content that the power is delegated and that it is subject to the negative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Section 89, "International Health Regulations", would confer very broad powers on the Scottish ministers. A full explanation is necessary. Are members content to seek further clarification from the Scottish Government on its intentions for the delivery of international health regulations and on how the powers would be exercised? Are members also content to ask about proposals to amend the provision at stage 2? We might get a useful snapshot of the Government's intentions.

Members indicated agreement.

On section 90, "Provision of information on the effects on health of sunbed use", are members content that the power is delegated and that it is subject to negative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

We no longer have experts on sunbeds in the Scottish Parliament.

On section 91, "Insect nuisance", are members content to ask the Scottish Government to provide further justification for the inclusion and scope of the power, given the broader power in section 94, and to ask about the adoption of the negative procedure to amend primary legislation?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

On section 94, "Power to make further provision regarding statutory nuisances", are members content to ask the Scottish Government to explain why it would take such a wide power and in what circumstances the power would be used? In other words, how far does the Government want to go?

Members indicated agreement.

Are members content to seek the Scottish Government's views on limitations to which the use of the power would be subject?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Given the statutory duties imposed on local authorities under part III of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, are members content to ask the Scottish Government whether procedural requirements, for example on consultation with local authorities and the need to have regard to their views, would be appropriate in the exercise of the power to extend the law of statutory nuisance?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Section 95, "Enforcement of statutory nuisances: fixed penalty notice" jumped out at me. Are members content to consider whether the power to modify the period for payment of the fixed penalty—14 days—should be subject to the higher level of parliamentary scrutiny that is afforded by the affirmative procedure? Should we invite the Scottish Government to restrict the exercise of the provision to the extension of the period for payment, thereby retaining a minimum period for payment in the bill? We could either call for use of the affirmative procedure or suggest the restriction of the provision, or we could do both.

We should ask the Government what suits it.

Yes. Do you agree that we need to be reassured on the potential for the period for payment to be reduced from 14 days, which might raise human rights issues?

Members indicated agreement.

On section 98, "Disclosure of information", are members content to ask the Scottish Government which bodies it anticipates that it might add to the list of relevant authorities?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Are members content to ask the Scottish Government to comment on whether it would be in order to restrict the power, for example by limiting the types of persons or bodies that could be added to the list, or to subject the power to the higher level of scrutiny that is afforded by affirmative procedure?

Members indicated agreement.

Are members content with the provision in section 102, "Regulations and orders"?

Members indicated agreement.

Are members content with the power in section 108, "Short title and commencement", and that it is not subject to parliamentary scrutiny?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

Before we leave consideration of the bill, I point out that we will consider the Government's responses in two weeks' time. We will have to pay fairly close attention to them, given what we have said already.

There we are; that was our first stab at a bill.