Chamber and committees

That is really positive. Thank you.

Good afternoon. As in the previous evidence sessions, we have heard two strong arguments for and against the bill. In general, opponents of the bill seem to imply that its implementation will put women at more risk—that seems to be the general feeling from the witnesses on the previous two panels who are opposed to the bill.

Although this is not my final position, at this point I am not overly convinced by that argument. I find myself inclined to identify with what Ruth Breslin said: that prostitution is inherently dangerous and violent, regardless of any legislation.

I want to look at the other side of the question. You might have a view on whether or not the bill should have been introduced, but it has been, by the member in charge, and it is here in front of us. If the Parliament does not pass it, what are the implications? What would that say to vulnerable women and girls, to those who are currently sex workers and to those who purchase sex? In addition, what message does it send to our young men and boys in Scotland? I have real concerns about that, because we now have the bill in front of us.

To go back to what the convener said earlier, I will pick one person on each side of the debate. What, in your view, are the implications of starting a conversation on this issue in our national Parliament and then not acting?

As I mentioned you, Ruth, I ask you to come in as somebody who is for the bill.

I go to Dr Sandy next. While I am not opposed to the bill—it would not be right to say that I am opposed to it—I have some concerns about it as currently drafted.

I have a follow-up question to Pauline McNeill’s earlier line of questioning. It is about the changing demographics in prison. I have brought that up before, both in committee and in the chamber.

An older prison population has significant health and social care needs. Some governors—most recently, the governor of Glenochil—have publicly expressed concerns about whether typical prisons are suitable for those prisoners, and best placed to house them, or whether more of a healthcare setting is required. By that, I mean healthcare in a prison context, because obviously there are different risks. Has any further work been done on that or has there been any consideration or assessment by the Government, in conjunction with the Scottish Prison Service, about how making changes in that area might impact the prison population beneficially and perhaps relieve some of the pressure that we are experiencing?

Thanks to everyone on the panel. Your evidence has been very, very powerful—I want to put that on the record. My first question is not something that I planned to ask, but it comes from something that Amanda Jane Quick mentioned much earlier. It was a reference to child sexual abuse and children carrying out the abuse. I chair the Parliament’s cross-party group on adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Recently, we did a very harrowing piece of work on sibling sexual abuse, which we brought to the chamber for a members’ business debate. I will read some small extracts from the motion that we debated.

Okay, convener. I draw members’ and witnesses’ attention to the motion. It is a major and complex issue and something that even professionals perhaps do not fully understand. It is much more common than is perhaps recorded, so I want to ask what role you think prostitution has in this unspoken shame that is happening in our communities, and do you think that the bill can help to address that?

Good afternoon, and thank you very much for your very strong evidence so far.

Amanda Jane Quick, who was on the previous panel, told us that if she had been in front of us 10 years ago, she would have been saying something very different. Presumably, she meant that she would have been against the criminalisation of buyers at that point, but now that she is out of it—to use her words—she realises that that is what is needed.

I know that this panel of witnesses are clearly representing the views of women who are currently working, but is there a risk that many of those women will one day change their mind, because of, say, a change in life circumstances, a specific traumatic event or an accumulation of trauma over the years? Is it perhaps better to make a mark just now and draw a red line, instead of waiting for that cycle to potentially repeat itself?

I am not saying that that will happen, or that I have a view on it just now—after all, we are just starting to take evidence on this. There are strong arguments to be made for both cases, as we have heard today. I thought that Amanda Jane made a very powerful point, but what do the witnesses think about it?

I am sorry—I always do the same thing of trying to unmute myself while broadcasting is doing the same. I apologise.

Good morning to the cabinet secretary and officials. I will follow Meghan Gallacher’s line of questioning. You have touched on this, cabinet secretary, but, for the record, when do you expect the remediation of all other buildings affected by RAAC to be finished?

I have a follow-up question. The cabinet secretary will be aware of the RAAC issues in the North Lanarkshire Council area that I represent. It is not, by any means, the worst-affected area, but there have been some high-profile cases involving RAAC. Is there any direct support available for councils such as North Lanarkshire Council with regard to meeting deadlines and getting the necessary work done?

I want to clarify a point and also give my apologies to the convener and the cabinet secretary for perhaps being opportunistic, given issues in my area and the constituency casework that I have had, by muddling up—for want of a better word—cladding and RAAC. I will be in the clerks’ bad books for having started another conversation about RAAC, but it was good to get some of that on the record. There was probably not a better place to bring in that supplementary question, so I just want to apologise to the convener. I also apologise for not giving the cabinet secretary any advance notice that I was going to ask that question. I appreciate her answer and it was good to get some of that on the record.