Chamber and committees

In paragraph 6, which is specifically on risks, you conclude:

“Given the current stage of investment and long-term nature of these expected outcomes, it is not yet possible to conclude whether the investments will deliver value for money. Instead, our assessment focuses on the risks to achieving value for money as a result of how money is invested, managed and delivered.”

Given the money that has already gone into, for example, port investments, are those things also being seen as public assets? How is the Government quantifying that? What I am interested in looking at is, when public money is being spent on assets for private companies, how those assets can be utilised by other companies, what the wider benefit to the economy might be and how all of that is being audited.

Good morning, and thanks for joining us today.

I want to return to Dawn Black’s question. Given all the reform that is going on, where are we with the delivery of apprenticeship numbers? We have not really heard any figures on that. The information that we have is that there was demand of between 35,000 and 40,000, and 25,000 apprenticeships were delivered. Where are we with regard to the coming financial year?

Where does the balance between those agreements present a risk in relation to achieving value for money? Some of the agreements that you outline in the report between different companies seem not to follow a pattern of reducing that risk; they seem to be more about trying to get companies to invest.

Good morning, and thanks for joining us today.

Having read the report, and having heard some of the answers to our questions this morning, I would say that seeing whether all this is on track feels a bit like taking a stab in the dark. I have to say that I was taken aback by some of the points that you make in the report. For example, paragraph 76 says:

“At this stage in programme delivery, there is limited evidence available to assess the extent to which these outcomes are being achieved.”

I have to say that it is not clear from your conclusion what the impact on the investment will be. When it comes to ministers providing that clarity, what do you expect to come from that? After all, there has been a lot of movement with regard to whether the supply chain funding will actually be realised, and that is quite concerning at this stage, if we are not talking about the public money that is being put forward.

The strategic business forum was established in August 2025. How often does that meet? Where does decision making sit with regard to where we will prioritise the opportunities around apprenticeships? That was one of the key themes in the report. I am not quite sure that we have seen that reform really get to a point where employers, such as SSE, can say the numbers that they need, and then the sector delivers them for industry. Who would be the lead in engaging with businesses on that, with the delivery moving from SDS to the Funding Council?

That is encouraging to hear. I am probably in a unique position on the committee in that I am the only member who was a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee in session 6, which oversaw the parliamentary consideration of the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill. One of that committee’s greatest concerns was that, when such service reform is undertaken, institutional memory is lost in translation, and people wait to see what the end product is before they take up an opportunity, so it is good to hear that the numbers are still on track.

I want to ask about employer engagement, which was another of my concerns when I was a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee—indeed, it was an issue that I tried to address by lodging amendments to the bill. The Audit Scotland report says that a round-table meeting between ministers and employers took place in December 2025. Is that the last time that ministers considered employers’ needs?

I have two further questions. One key risk that is referred to throughout the report concerns the financial unsustainability of the college sector, and the delivery of apprenticeships goes hand in hand with that. What are your thoughts on that aspect? We will look at other reports from the Auditor General on financial sustainability, but it will be critical to delivery in future. We have many institutions that are at huge risk of failure and bail-outs. One key understanding from this report is that the future delivery is based on our college sector being in a strong place.

Finally, during the passage of the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill, I raised the issue of transparency on apprenticeship funding. Data from His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs shows that, between 2020 and 2024, which is the most recent period for which we have figures, £875 million was raised from Scottish employers under the UK-wide apprenticeship levy scheme. Research shows that the Scottish Government has spent just £704 million, when you take into account the money for graduate, foundation and modern apprenticeships as well as the funding of Government quangos. How is the Government tracking that funding? There is £171 million that businesses in Scotland have paid towards apprenticeships that has not been spent on apprenticeship schemes. Where is the transparency on that?

That would be helpful.

We have heard about the demand. Is there a problem with not being able to meet the demand, which is clearly higher than what can be met, purely because of funding? We need transparency for employers, perhaps from the Scottish Government and the Treasury, on where that money should be allocated to deliver what it was originally levied for.