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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 850 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

That, however, feels very wishy-washy because if we have an act that received royal assent 10 years ago—and we are having four sessions on this—and the evidence demonstrates that there is a lack of implementation, that is a huge issue. Might you be willing to consider a change in approach, because you cannot manage what you do not measure?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

So that is the one question that we need to ask.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

Will you be coming back before the end of the year?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

I will make a comment on that and then ask my final question.

We are being told that BSL is very much an afterthought in education. I give the example of the Education (Scotland) Bill. BSL was not factored into it at the outset. It has only come in at the end, through amendments, and that is upsetting to the deaf community. That is take-away feedback.

I told the previous panel of witnesses that we had the Deputy First Minister in front of us next, and I asked what one question they would like us to ask her and her officials. Members can correct me if I have it wrong, but I think that their question was, “What will you do to ensure that deaf children are all trained to use BSL in Scotland?”.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

Thank you. We are discussing our work programme later, and we can build that in.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

After this session, we have Kate Forbes, the Deputy First Minister, in front of us. What one question would you like us as a committee to ask Kate Forbes?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

In terms of your asking for ideas and thoughts, we are being told from the consultation process—which was an extensive consultation process right across Scotland—that there is a shortage of education facilities, a lack of evidence of plan implementation, a lack of classes teaching BSL and a lack of interpreters. You can take that away and implement it. Thank you for recognising it. Do you have any thoughts on those four things?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

Good morning. My questions are for Dr Adam and Professor Kusters.

The BSL act has been in place since 22 October 2015, so it has been 10 years. That act of the Scottish Parliament stated that listed authorities had up to 12 months following the launch of the first national plan to publish their BSL plans. One concern that the committee has is that only 62 per cent of the local BSL plans were published in BSL at the same time as the English version. How should we hold listed authorities to account to meet the publishing requirements of the BSL act?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

To me, that is basic. You can measure other things, but you should first do the most basic thing right.

My colleague talked earlier about the comparison with Gaelic. Dr Adam talked about capacity building. We have heard from the previous two evidence sessions that there is a lack of capacity, for various reasons, whether it is a lack of interpreters, a lack of teachers or a lack of training facilities. However, when I compare Gaelic to BSL, I think that 2.7 per cent of people in Scotland speak Gaelic, and I think that 2.2 per cent are BSL users. They are very similar populations, yet the Scottish Government spends £30 million a year on Gaelic. We asked our research team, but we cannot find any evidence on how much the Scottish Government spends on BSL.

Dr Adam, you talked about lip service. That is lip service, and you cannot manage what you do not measure. As the British Deaf Association said, there is limited funding to support any development and implementation of the act. What is your view of that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Tess White

You said that it is lip service, so it is almost aspirational but there is no implementation. The rubber has not hit the road yet.