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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 May 2025
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Displaying 710 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

Do you want to respond to that, Richard?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

I cannot speak for Donna Bell and it might be easier for her to answer that. However, when I came into this role as minister, it seemed that many of our partners—with whom we are working very healthily now—were quite opposed to the bill. That would include—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

Yes. I am confident that the compromises that we have come up with are absolutely the right way forward.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

No. As I said, we are still working on the detail of the economic benefits. Those benefits will come from having a social care system that delivers for people and from having a workforce that has better pay. Those would result if we are able to successfully introduce a social care system that works well for the people who are working in it as well as for the people who are accessing care.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

You have the business case, which is a dynamic document and is regularly updated. We supplied that to you, along with the paperwork, on 11 December, and I am absolutely content to continue furnishing the committee with the updated business case as we go along. We are working on what the economic case is likely to be—as opposed to the budgetary cost—in the business case. That is where the detail is laid out.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

The detail of the format will be worked out in co-design and in secondary legislation; it does not need to be in the primary legislation.

I have ideas about who I think should sit on that board. I am fairly certain that, as well as the shared accountability partners—the NHS, local authority and ministerial representatives—there should also be lived experience, which might mean people who are accessing care as well as unpaid carers. There is a lot of interest in ensuring that the sector itself is represented on the board.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

If there is a very good reason for it, that is what we will do.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

I hope not. The intention is for those things to be simpler and more transparent. We think that the integration authorities will fulfil the purpose of the care board as in the bill as introduced. On the link with the national care board, the integration authorities will produce their local delivery plans, and the national board will look at those and will hold the authorities to account on delivery. I think that, if anything, that will improve the situation by ensuring that adequate funding is put against aspirations to ensure that delivery occurs. That is the relationship between the local integration authorities and the national care board.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

On efficiency savings, I meet people day in, day out, and I am told, anecdotally, just how difficult it is to navigate the social care system. Every MSP round the table will have experience of hearing from people who are bounced around from pillar to post to access care. There is duplication of effort and there is inefficient and ineffective sharing of information. Sometimes that is costly. We can all see it in our mailboxes, day in, day out. If the system works better, there will undoubtedly be efficiency savings.

I think that there is a level of unmet need—I agree with the Feeley review on that. I think that there is a level of need that we have not identified among people who are not successfully navigating the system and getting the care that they need, so there will be some increased cost as well, if we do this right. We will have to meet the unmet need, as well as making efficiency savings.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 January 2024

Maree Todd

We recognise that it is there. It is hard to quantify, because it is not properly counted at the moment—that goes back to better data, better financial scrutiny and better understanding. We will have a better idea, as we go along, of the costs that are involved. We have an ambition to increase spending. We recognise that unmet need is there.