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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, October 5, 2023


Contents


Portfolio Question Time


Social Justice

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)

Good afternoon. The first item of business is portfolio questions on social justice. I remind members that questions 3, 4 and 7 are grouped, so I will take any supplementaries after all three questions have been answered. As usual, any member who wants to ask a supplementary question should press their request-to-speak button during the relevant question. The usual appeal for brevity in questions and responses applies. I call Alasdair Allan, who joins us remotely.


Low-income Households (Green Energy)

To ask the Scottish Government how its housing strategy is supporting people on low incomes to move towards greener energy use in their homes. (S6O-02600)

The Minister for Zero Carbon Buildings, Active Travel and Tenants’ Rights (Patrick Harvie)

We support people on low incomes to move towards, and benefit from, greener energy through our local area-based schemes and our national warmer homes Scotland service. The new warmer homes Scotland service relaunched earlier this week and aims to reach many more vulnerable households.

We support social landlords and their tenants to benefit from energy efficiency and heating improvements through our social housing net zero heat fund. We support every household in Scotland with free and impartial advice about greener energy use and lower energy bills from our Home Energy Scotland service.

Alasdair Allan

The vast majority of homes in my constituency, as the minister knows, rely on heating oils, liquefied petroleum gas—LPG—or electric storage heaters because they cannot connect to the gas grid. My constituency also has some of the highest levels of fuel poverty in the country. Is any additional support available to households in rural and island areas to help them to improve the energy efficiency of their homes and to move to greener heating solutions?

Patrick Harvie

Yes, indeed. We recognise that households in rural and island communities face higher costs and experience some of the highest rates of fuel poverty in Scotland. The targeting and level of support that is available reflects that situation: since last December, we provided an extra £1,500 on top of our £7,500 Home Energy Scotland heating energy efficiency grants, due to the higher costs in rural areas. Fuel-poor households in off-gas areas benefit from higher levels of funding, too, as part of the area-based schemes and warmer homes Scotland service, and our social housing net zero heat fund, which makes £200 million available up to 2026 to support social landlords in that agenda. Rural areas will benefit from an 11 per cent uplift, while remote areas can get 22 per cent more funding.

I visited many social housing providers including, most recently, Argyll Community Housing Association, which has already installed almost 1,400 air-source heat pumps, which covers more than a quarter of its housing stock. A great many of those organisations are leading the way.

Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)

A recent parliamentary question that the minister answered showed the massive disparity between Edinburgh and Glasgow in respect of the number of homes that have been retrofitted through the social housing net zero heat fund. In the past two financial years, Edinburgh has been awarded a total of 116 grants, in comparison with Glasgow's 7,260—Glasgow accounts for 65 per cent of all grants that are delivered in Scotland. I appreciate that Glasgow has a higher number of social housing landlords than other parts of Scotland, but that does not seem to account for the disparity. Why has Glasgow received a disproportionately high number of grants, and what is happening for other parts of the country?

Patrick Harvie

The social housing net zero heat fund is available throughout the country and requires organisations to bid. We work very well with social housing providers throughout the country. I am happy to explore those figures, if Mr Briggs wants to write to me about them particularly.

The most important thing is that social housing providers in all parts of the country—urban, rural, east, west, north and south—are already benefiting, and will continue to benefit, from that investment, and we are keen to continue to work with them.


Victims of Domestic Abuse (Leavers Fund)

2. Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how and when it will introduce a leavers fund for victims of domestic abuse, which would provide a social security payment for those who feel the need to flee their homes. (S6O-02601)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)

We strongly believe that financial uncertainty should not be a barrier to women leaving an abusive relationship, which is why we are firmly committed to looking at what we can do to provide financial support when needed. We continue to work closely with organisations, including Scottish Women’s Aid and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, to explore how a fund that provides immediate financial assistance could work in practice and be best targeted. We hope to be able to provide further detail of that work very shortly.

Sharon Dowey

Domestic abuse crimes have risen to record levels in recent years. A leavers fund to help survivors of abuse to leave their homes safely would be a big step forward, and charities say that it would save lives. It was agreed to by the Scottish Government in 2020, but we still do not have a timeline for its implementation. Is it still going to go ahead and, if so, when does the cabinet secretary expect the fund to be operational?

Shirley-Anne Somerville

As I said in my original answer, we expect to make an announcement on the fund very shortly. The Government remains committed to recognising that we need to support women, and to ensuring that they have any support that they require to leave an unsafe or abusive relationship. I repeat that we will make an announcement shortly.


Social Housing Shortage (Edinburgh)

3. Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it is considering specific solutions to support the City of Edinburgh Council, and other relevant organisations, to address Edinburgh’s social housing shortage and growing population pressures, including providing additional resources in its 2024-25 budget. (S6O-02602)

The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan)

I have met Edinburgh’s housing convener on a number of occasions and have invited bespoke proposals to address the specific challenges facing the capital city that have formed the basis of in-depth discussion about potential areas of Scottish Government support for Edinburgh. My officials regularly engage with the City of Edinburgh Council on additional expenditure capacity that it might have, which depends on the overall availability of resources and delivery of its existing programme. We are making £234 million available in Edinburgh during the current parliamentary session to support affordable housing delivery. Decisions about capital spending for 2024-25 will be presented to Parliament in due course.

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate that there are severe pressures on public investment, and that the Scottish Government has made significant investment in housing nationally since 2007 and is making investment in the period ahead. I also appreciate the minister’s communication about discussing bespoke solutions with the City of Edinburgh Council.

As part of that, can the Scottish Government commit to altering the way in which the affordable housing supply programme funding is allocated through the strategic housing investment plan, to build more social houses in Edinburgh more quickly, considering population pressure and the city’s specific issues? Will the minister consider how additional resource could be provided to the City of Edinburgh Council to address the serious issue of homelessness?

Paul McLennan

The strategic housing investment framework, which is the mechanism for allocating funding to local authorities, was agreed with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities in 2012. It covers 30 of the 32 local authority areas in Scotland, with Edinburgh and Glasgow sitting outwith the framework. If Edinburgh wishes to open up that discussion, it should do so through COSLA.

In the current parliamentary session, funding for Edinburgh is 21 per cent more than it was during the previous session and, last year, we were able to direct an additional £10 million to investment in Edinburgh. Officials continue to engage regularly with council partners to discuss programme capacity for now and for areas of future development.


Housing Shortage (Edinburgh)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the City of Edinburgh Council regarding funding to address the housing shortage resulting from population growth. (S6O-02603)

The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan)

I probably answered that in my answer to the previous question. Affordable housing supply programme investment in Edinburgh is at a record level, at £234 million. My officials are in regular discussion with the City of Edinburgh Council about additional capacity that it might have, not just for now but for strategic areas of investment in the future. As I said in my answer to the previous question, in 2022-23, the Edinburgh council area benefited from a further £10 million. Resource planning assumptions are in place for each year up to 2025-26.

Sarah Boyack

I thank the minister for his answer and declare an interest—my former work with the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations.

I am sure that the minister will be aware that, in the past three years, the amount of housing that has been built for social rent is way below the level that is needed, and that the city has been underfunded for years. Will the minister commit today to addressing the fundamental issue of increasing the share of funding for Edinburgh?

Does the minister agree with the City of Edinburgh Council’s estimate that 1,000 new social rented homes are needed every year over the next decade? Will he accept that Scottish Government funding is critical to delivering the required level of growth, given the population increases that we have and the fact that the house-building sector needs confidence and certainty to deliver the supply change, the staff and the land that we need to build that housing?

Paul McLennan

I go back to the point that I made to Ben Macpherson. We are in discussions with the council about its capacity to look at that in the coming years of this parliamentary session. On looking at other strategic development sites, we are in discussions with the City of Edinburgh Council about what we can do to work with it in that regard. As I said, we are in regular discussions and are talking about bespoke solutions not just in resource funding but in capital funding.


Housing Shortage (Edinburgh)

7. Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)

To ask the Scottish Government what additional resources are being allocated to help to support the City of Edinburgh Council to address housing shortages, including the number of families in temporary accommodation, in light of figures showing that over a quarter of all children in temporary accommodation are in Edinburgh. (S6O-02606)

The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan)

This year, as I have said, the City of Edinburgh Council is receiving a record £234 million to address its housing priorities. I refer members to the answers that I gave to Sarah Boyack and Ben Macpherson.

The number of households with children that are in temporary accommodation in Edinburgh is concerning. I do not dispute that. Households with children spend longer, on average, in temporary accommodation, due to the demand for larger homes.

We are in bespoke discussions about what we need to do for Edinburgh, specifically. We are working to acquire more housing for use as permanent homes and to maximise the use of existing homes. We will invest at least £60 million this year, through the affordable housing supply programme, to support our national acquisition plan, which will help to boost affordable housing supply in Edinburgh. We invite applications for that.

Miles Briggs

I am not sure whether the minister or the cabinet secretary are aware of the emergency situation that we are seeing in Edinburgh. The latest figures show that 2,265 children are living in temporary accommodation in Edinburgh, which is up 20 per cent on last year and is an increase of 930 per cent since 2002. We need more action than what we have heard in the minister’s three answers today.

As Ben Macpherson said, the capital faces unique challenges, with higher land costs and greater demand for housing. Will the Scottish Government consider a temporary accommodation fund specifically for Edinburgh, to look at new solutions and models to try to address the challenges?

Paul McLennan

I have a number of points to make on that. I have talked about the bespoke conversations on capital and resource that are going on. On making people fully aware of the situation, I have met the City of Edinburgh Council’s housing convener three or four times since being in post, and I have another meeting coming up shortly. I met Shelter on the matter very recently, and I have met Crisis in that regard, as well.

The temporary accommodation task and finish group has made recommendations, and I have talked about the £60 million for acquisitions, and about allocations. Those are parts of the discussions that we are having with the City of Edinburgh Council at the moment. Discussions are on-going and will continue. Scottish Government officials meet the council every week and, as I said, I regularly meet the council and will meet it again very shortly.

I note that these are questions about the City of Edinburgh Council’s budget and housing. I call a supplementary question from Audrey Nicoll.

Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)

The £60 million national acquisition plan that was announced this summer looks set to accelerate the Scottish Government’s work to get people and families out of temporary accommodation and into a space that they can call their own. Will the minister provide an update on the roll-out of the fund and the work that is being done with experts and local government to ensure that it is effective?

Paul McLennan

At the moment, the £60 million is available for local authorities to apply for. A number of authorities have indicated an interest, and discussions are on-going in that regard. We work very closely with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities as well as with key partners: I have mentioned previous meetings with Shelter and Crisis. There have been significant discussions about the fund.


Families in Poverty (Energy Costs)

5. Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the social justice secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding the support available to families experiencing poverty, including as a result of high energy costs. (S6O-02604)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)

Tackling poverty is at the heart of what we do as a Government. I recently convened the first meeting of the new tackling child poverty ministerial oversight group, which will meet regularly to drive action where required. We know that households are struggling after years of austerity, a hard Brexit and economic mismanagement at the hands of the Conservative Government in Westminster. That is why we have allocated almost £3 billion to tackle poverty and protect people from harm during the on-going cost of living crisis, with the fuel insecurity fund tripled to £30 million this year.

Michelle Thomson

I welcome—especially during challenge poverty week—the significant interventions of the Scottish Government using the limited devolved powers that are at its disposal. Does the cabinet secretary agree that poverty reduction in Scotland is undermined by the, frankly, illogical approach to social security in Westminster and that an essentials guarantee from the United Kingdom Government would go a long way to alleviating the disproportionate pressure that is being placed on devolved budgets?

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Michelle Thomson raises a very important point, and I absolutely agree with her on it. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation estimates that if, this year, the universal credit standard allowance were set at £120 per week for a single adult and £200 for a couple, that could lift 1.8 million people out of poverty, including 600,000 children across the UK. Levels of universal credit have been too low for too long, and the Scottish Government has called on the UK Government to introduce an essentials guarantee. In addition, I have written to my UK counterpart on the issue.

It is very important that we all do everything that we can to ensure that social security benefits adequately cover the cost of essentials and better protect our most vulnerable people.

Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)

In “Shetland’s Local Annual Child Poverty Action Report”, it was estimated that a household in Shetland would need to earn £104,000 a year to avoid being in fuel poverty. Shetland’s cooler and windier climate, poor insulation levels and lack of availability of the cheapest energy options further compound the effect on families of high energy costs. What is the Scottish Government’s support strategy to prevent children and families who are experiencing poverty from living in cold and unheated homes this winter?

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I direct Beatrice Wishart to the answer that my colleague Patrick Harvie gave to Alasdair Allan earlier, which dealt with many of those issues. In summary, this year, we have allocated £350 million to heat, energy efficiency and fuel poverty measures, £119 million of which is targeted at fuel-poor households. Funding for our updated warmer homes Scotland service, which restarted on Monday, stands at £55 million, which is its highest-ever level. The budget for our local authority area-based schemes also continues at the record level of £64 million this year.


Social Justice Interventions (Independent Analysis)

6. Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will commission independent analysis of the impact that its interventions, including the Scottish child payment, carers allowance supplement and the baby box, have had on social justice. (S6O-02605)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)

We have published evaluations of the Scottish child payment, carers allowance supplement and the baby box. Those evaluations, which included research by independent contractors, showed a positive impact on social justice in Scotland, with the Scottish child payment contributing to the overall aim of reducing child poverty, the young carers grant having a positive impact on carers’ finances and their feelings of wellbeing, and the baby box having a positive impact on families, particularly for first-time, younger and lower-income parents.

Christine Grahame

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s annual “Poverty in Scotland” report, which was published this week, highlighted the significant impact that the increased Scottish child payment is likely to have had on child poverty levels. I thank the cabinet secretary for her answer and ask her how I can access that data, which would be useful in showing the impact that not just the Scottish child payment but all the Scottish Government’s interventions are having on child poverty.

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We know that our actions are making a difference, because 90,000 fewer children are expected to live in relative and absolute poverty this year as a result of Scottish Government policies. That includes lifting an estimated 50,000 children out of relative poverty through the investment in our Scottish child payment, which Professor Danny Dorling has described as the biggest fall in child poverty anywhere in Europe for at least 40 years.

I would be happy to provide Christine Grahame and, indeed, other members with further details of the work that we are doing to ensure that we are on the right track to meet our statutory targets and eradicate child poverty in Scotland. The Scottish Government’s policies are making a difference. What a shame that, at the same time, the UK Government’s welfare policies are pushing children into poverty.


Cladding Remediation

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on cladding remediation in Scotland. (S6O-02607)

The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan)

The safety of home owners and residents is our absolute priority. That is why the programme for government sets out proposals for a cladding remediation bill that will give ministers new powers to ensure the remediation of buildings with unsafe cladding, and it is why we are seeking the transfer of powers in order to create a building safety levy.

We are undertaking a robust programme of single building assessments. Those assessments are being completed and remediation work is already under way. We are committed to undertaking a stock survey and ensuring that buildings in the pilot programme are on a single building assessment pathway.

Tess White

The reality is that progress on removing dangerous cladding has been pitiful. The Scottish Government has the financial resources that it needs but has spent barely 4 per cent of the United Kingdom Government’s allocation for cladding remediation, and we now hear that more powers are needed in order to make progress. Can the minister provide a timeline for the proposed cladding remediation bill and explain what action will be taken to expedite the process in the meantime?

Paul McLennan

Obviously, I disagree with the member’s assessment of the progress that has been made so far. It is key that we work with developers as we develop our programme. I have met with them on a number of occasions, both in round-table meetings and individually. It is important to work extensively with them, and we are working closely in that regard.

We are going through the bill process at the moment. I met the member’s colleague Miles Briggs a few weeks ago to talk about the principles of the bill. I agreed to meet him again, and I will be happy to meet Ms White, when full details of the bill are available in order to discuss them further.

Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)

The cladding remediation bill is a welcome addition to the programme for government. Will the minister elaborate on how the new powers in the bill will build on the groundwork that has already been carried out by the Scottish Government and its local partners to identify high-rise buildings in need of remedial work?

Paul McLennan

We have had a number of meetings with developers. We will introduce a bill to support the delivery of the cladding remediation programme, which will prioritise the safety of home owners and residents. My discussions with home owners and developers, as well as the evidence from our pilot work, have highlighted key issues, which include the challenges of securing consent for assessment and remediation work—especially when dealing with non-resident home owners—and of delivering on the commitment to create a register of buildings that have undergone assessment and require remediation work to be carried out.

We are committed to ensuring that developers make a fair contribution to the programme and to identifying buildings in order to understand the scope of the challenge.

That concludes portfolio questions on social justice. There will be a brief pause before the next item of business to allow members on the front benches to change over.