Economy and Fair Work Committee

Meeting date: Wednesday, September 28, 2022

Official Report 592KB pdf

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Subordinate Legislation

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Consumer Scotland (Transfer of Functions) Regulations 2022 [Draft]

We move to an evidence session on the draft Consumer Scotland (Transfer of Functions) Regulations 2022. I refer members to paper 1 and I welcome to the meeting Tom Arthur, the Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth, who is joined from the Scottish Government by Neil Ritchie, head of unit, energy services and consumer policy, and Susan Robb, solicitor. I invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

Good morning to the committee. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to the draft regulations. The regulations are, in effect, the final piece of the jigsaw in implementing the Consumer Scotland Act 2020. Earlier sets of regulations have already been through Parliament, as has a United Kingdom Government order pertaining to reserved aspects.

The regulations in their simplest form will add “Consumer Scotland” or replace references to “Citizens Advice Scotland” with “Consumer Scotland” in Scottish acts to allow the transfer or sharing of functions between the two consumer bodies. This is a technical instrument, which brings transparency around the transfer of functions and also recognises Consumer Scotland as Scotland’s independent consumer advocate. The functions that are being transferred relate to the devolved policy responsibility for water. Without the transfer of functions from CAS to Consumer Scotland in the areas of consumer advocacy and general advice, Consumer Scotland would not be able to carry out its duties.

You may be wondering why we are not transferring all functions to Consumer Scotland. Consumer Scotland and CAS, although they are both consumer bodies, have extremely different roles to play in the consumer landscape. CAS will continue to provide advice via its network of bureaux and the extra help unit. Consumer Scotland, as part of its statutory functions, has the ability to provide advice, along with making proposals on consumer matters to the Scottish ministers and public organisations in Scotland, and to other organisations where needed.

Consumer Scotland has now been up and running since July, carrying out a wide range of activities, influencing and adding value where it is needed most. For example, in relation to water policy, Consumer Scotland is already a key player, campaigning for a fair deal for customers and assisting with policy development. As a member of strategic stakeholder groups, Consumer Scotland scrutinises the delivery of Scottish Water’s investment programme to ensure that ministers’ objectives are being delivered. I welcome this engagement as an assurance that customers and communities have high-quality representation. Consumer Scotland will also be carrying out its own research to identify the potential impact that future increases in water and sewerage charges may have on low-income households.

This legislation is an opportunity for us to ensure that consumers have a voice, that their interests are represented, and that their own capacity to drive change is harnessed. The cost crisis that we find ourselves in now has revealed how important it is that customers have access to the information that they need and are mindful of the impacts of their own behaviour.

We began this process of establishing Consumer Scotland because we recognise that consumers are the life-blood of our economy and, in the months ahead, consumers will be vital for rebuilding our economy and supporting businesses. We will continue this process and one of the ways of doing this is for the committee, I hope, to agree to recommend the approval of the draft regulations. On that, convener, I will conclude. I am happy to take any questions that the committee may have.

Thank you, minister.

Could you explain to us whether Citizens Advice Scotland is losing functions and they are being transferred, or is this just duplication?

The role of Consumer Scotland is set out in the Consumer Scotland Act 2020, which was passed unanimously at stage 3. Its primary role is as Scotland’s independent consumer advocate, but citizens advice bureaux will still be the first ports of call for many people looking for advice. It sits within that broader landscape of consumer support. There is Consumer Scotland, there is Advice Direct Scotland, there is CAS and there are, of course, trading standards departments as well. The role of Consumer Scotland will be in providing national advocacy as set out in the legislation and working to co-ordinate a lot of the activity that goes on in Scotland.

As a consumer, if I had an issue with Scottish Water, could I still go to my local citizens advice bureau?

Yes. The role is around advocacy. Neil Ritchie might want to explain the distinction between the two bodies.

Yes. One of the things that we have been doing in helping Consumer Scotland to set up is to increase the transparency about where consumers go if they need any support and help. There are other organisations out there that play a role, such as Advice Direct Scotland and, as the minister has mentioned, trading standards. Yes, consumers can still go to the bureaux, or to Advice Direct Scotland or trading standards. Which one they go to will probably depend on the nature of the issue, but I am hoping that the work that we have done to simplify the consumer journey has helped.

The other point that might be worth making is that the staff who used to undertake the consumer advocacy functions in CAS were transferred under TUPE—the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations—to Consumer Scotland in May of this year.

What is Citizens Advice Scotland’s view on this? Has it been consulted?

Yes, it has been consulted. As set out in the legislation, there was a requirement to consult Consumer Scotland and Citizens Advice Scotland, and they were consulted.

What was Citizens Advice Scotland’s view?

Ultimately, this is about the implementation of an act that was passed by Parliament, so I think that it recognises that this is a decision that Parliament has taken to set up an independent body, Consumer Scotland, which is a non-ministerial office. We have engaged carefully and listened and we have worked through the TUPE process to ensure that Consumer Scotland is now operational. As I said, the instrument completes the journey. It is a technical instrument that is fundamentally about implementing the legislation that Parliament has passed.

Good morning, minister. Thank you for what you have said so far. To follow up on Graham Simpson’s questions, I note what you say about the TUPE-ing over of staff from CAS to Consumer Scotland and the responsibilities that have shifted. In the consultation process, did Citizens Advice Scotland identify any potential barriers or pitfalls that we should be aware of, especially given that we know that CAS will be very busy in the coming months? Are there potential pinchpoints or areas that we need to be alert to?

No. We worked closely with CAS during the process, particularly with the Scotland Act orders. The minister mentioned the extra help unit, which sits within CAS and which gives further support to vulnerable consumers in the energy and post spaces in particular. We had a lot of discussions with CAS to get that sorted properly so that there were shared responsibilities, particularly where the extra help unit needed powers. My team wrote to CAS on these instruments and its chief executive confirmed that he was happy with them.

Good morning. There has been a lot of change in this sector. When will the first performance review of Consumer Scotland be?

I believe that the legislation sets out that Consumer Scotland will be expected to undertake a review of how it has performed within five years. There will also be regular discussions with officials and the minister to review how it is getting on. That is part of the joint working that I know the minister is keen for us to have with all the public bodies.

In terms of scrutiny by either this committee or other committees, will we see an on-going review, rather than just the review within five years? Will we have by, say, next year an indication of how things are performing?

The reporting requirements are set out in the legislation, but I want to stress that this is set up as a non-ministerial office, so it is directly accountable to Parliament. Indeed, this committee as the lead committee in this area in Parliament can directly engage with Consumer Scotland on these matters. I am conscious, with it being an NMO, that I do not want to overstep my mark as a minister.

Lastly, you talked about user pathways and how there are a number of organisations out there, and it has been suggested that there is the risk of duplication or overlap. Will how clear user pathways are, how clear information is and who people should go to for advice be part of the reviews?

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Again, I would not want to get into the territory of commenting specifically on the work programme and the work that Consumer Scotland will undertake, but clearly, as Scotland’s independent consumer advocacy body, it can play an important role in working with other stakeholders and working in partnership with others to maximise coherence and accessibility within the consumer support landscape. I do not know whether there is anything that Neil Ritchie wants to add.

There is only one extra thing that I would say. Co-ordination between consumer bodies came up very strongly in the bill process and, in the wake of the pandemic, we set up the consumer network for Scotland, which drew a lot of these bodies together in one space. Now that Consumer Scotland has been established, we have stepped back from that to allow it to take leadership of that group. We set that group up when we did—probably at least 18 months earlier than was expected—because, from spring 2020 onwards, we needed to capture that information coherently from consumer bodies to understand what issues consumers were facing and feed that into policy decisions across Government and elsewhere. That has been effective in helping a lot of the bodies speak more clearly together.

Thank you.

As there are no other questions, I invite the minister to speak to and move motion S6M-05257.

Motion moved,

That the Economy and Fair Work Committee recommends that the Consumer Scotland (Transfer of Functions) Regulations 2022 be approved.—[Tom Arthur]

Motion agreed to.

I thank the minister and his officials for joining us this morning. I will briefly suspend the meeting while we change the panel of witnesses.

09:47 Meeting suspended.  

09:50 On resuming—