Plenary, 19 Jan 2006

Meeting date: Thursday, January 19, 2006

Official Report 727KB pdf

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Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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General Questions

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Longannet Power Station (Sewage Sludge)

To ask the Scottish Executive what its view is on the continuing burning of sewage sludge at Longannet power station, in light of the legal ruling that the practice should end in December 2005. (S2O-8747)

The ruling by Lord Reed in the Court of Session was to refuse to grant declarator as sought by ScottishPower either that sludge pellets were not waste, or that the Scottish Environment Protection Agency's variation notice erred in law.

It is for SEPA to decide how to enforce the Waste Incineration (Scotland) Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/170) in individual cases and I understand that SEPA is serving an enforcement notice requiring ScottishPower to come forward with proposals that would allow it to provide an alternative to burning the pellets in Longannet power station.

The minister will recognise the gravity of the situation, given the fact that 50 per cent of Scotland's sewage sludge, including sewage sludge from my region, the Lothians, is currently burned at Longannet. First, when the Greens previously raised the issue with the environment department, what action did the minister and Rhona Brankin take to discuss it with ScottishPower? Secondly, what information does the minister have from SEPA about when the situation at Longannet will be cleared up and Longannet brought in line with the legal ruling?

Right from the moment at which SEPA issued the enforcement notice we were fully apprised of the implications of how sewage sludge is dealt with in Scotland. Immediately upon Lord Reed's ruling we were even more apprised of that. As I said in answer to the first question, SEPA is seeking to enforce the notice in such a way that, with ScottishPower, it finds a solution that would provide an alternative means of disposing of sewage and that would comply with the regulations. That would be a practical and pragmatic step. I share the concern of Mr Ballard, and every other member, about the real difficulties of achieving that solution but, as the alternative is simply taking all that sewage to landfill, SEPA is right to seek a practical and pragmatic solution, without breaking the law. That seems sensible; I hope that members agree with me and SEPA.

Does the minister agree that the Executive can learn lessons from the United Kingdom Government's declared intention to back a large rise in the amount of waste that is incinerated rather than being sent to landfill? Does he agree that the Executive should similarly take advantage of the new technologies for the heat treatment of waste?

I do not know whether Ted Brocklebank is suggesting that the Executive should pay for those new technologies. We initiated discussions with SEPA and we made the point that it should have discussions with ScottishPower. They should use whatever technology is available to them to arrive at a practical and pragmatic solution that tries, as far as possible, to avoid the current traffic of sewage sludge and does not involve simply ceasing incineration and sending sewage sludge to landfill. SEPA is engaged in doing that and it is to be congratulated on attempting to take that pragmatic view on this important matter.

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Spending and Taxation

To ask the Scottish Executive, in light of the First Minister's statement on the BBC on 3 January 2006 that he was ambitious to start to close the gap between spending and taxation that the Executive believes exists in Scotland, what the Executive's eventual target is for closing the gap; what steps will be taken to achieve that target; whether it will change the basis of calculation for measuring the gap, and when it anticipates that the target will be achieved. (S2O-8722)

We want to rebalance the Scottish economy by placing an emphasis on growing the private sector. We will do that by creating the conditions for the economy to grow in terms of infrastructure, business support, skills and education. We will certainly not do that by setting arbitrary targets.

I thank the minister for that sadly predictable answer. When he reviews his options, will he note that he still has no power to tax, to save or to borrow? Will he also note that, thanks to the crazy "Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland"—or GERS—exercise, which trumpets a false deficit, the Executive has generated a rating for national viability that is 55th out of 60 developed and developing countries and puts Scotland down with Venezuela and Argentina? Will the minister tell us how the Executive's powerlessness and that rating are in Scotland's interests?

It seems to me that when politicians are struggling for an argument in the chamber they start to talk about places such as Venezuela. We are here in Scotland and we will try to concentrate on the issues that affect us—

What about Bangladesh?

Order.

It does not matter one bit how loudly Mr Swinney shouts. The common sense of our arguments will prevail and he will have to accept that sooner or later.

I return to the points that were made by Mr Mather. I heard his derogatory comment about the GERS statistics, but they are robust statistics that were, for the first time, produced under the code of practice of the Office for National Statistics. They are more robust than ever, but because they do not suit Mr Mather's argument he continues to try to undermine them. Perhaps that is one of the strongest arguments that we can make for not listening to his argument that we should set arbitrary targets. If they did not suit his argument, he would ignore them anyway, so why should we go to the bother of setting them?

Mr Mather also says that we are powerless. For him, everything is predicated on the notion that we would be better off if Scotland ripped itself out of the United Kingdom. Our long-term average growth rate is better than it has ever been. More of our citizens are in employment than at any time since records began. The vast majority of the expansion in employment has taken place in the private sector. The gross domestic product growth rate for the second quarter of 2005 stands at 0.6 per cent. That is higher than the UK rate, which is 0.5 per cent. It seems to me that the people of Scotland know that. We are doing very well and we will continue to do well. That is why the SNP's arguments fall on deaf ears and why they will continue to do so.

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Freshwater Fishing

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it is taking to improve access to freshwater fishing. (S2O-8726)

On 16 December 2005, the Scottish Executive published "Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill: Consultation Paper and Draft Regulatory Impact Assessment". Chapter 9 of the document covers the proposals on possible amendments to rules on access that have been developed in collaboration with the Scottish freshwater fisheries forum and its steering group.

Is the minister aware of the firm commitments that were given in parliamentary replies to John Home Robertson and me that the Freshwater and Salmon Fisheries (Scotland) Act 1976 would be repealed? In 2001, the minister herself signed a document that confirmed the Executive's aim of repealing the 1976 act and replacing the notorious protection orders with a new system. Why, then, does the recent consultation document describe repeal as only an option rather than a commitment? Is the Executive trying to rig the consultation by ensuring that only one of the nine public meetings will be held in the central belt, where most of the population live? Many of them will have other engagements because the Executive has fixed the meeting for Burns night.

As Dennis Canavan should know, the issue has been discussed at great length with a wide group of stakeholders and they overwhelmingly rejected the proposal to repeal the protection order system. They believe that we should not repeal the system until a better management system can be put in place. That is the key to the matter. The Scottish freshwater fisheries forum comprises a range of organisations that represent anglers, including the Scottish Anglers National Association. It has more than 30,000 members who are persuaded that we cannot do away with protection orders until a better management system is in place. We do not want to rush in and we have not made our final decision about what will happen. I must ensure that we think in the longer term about how we can make fishing sustainable, improve access and get the correct balance. That is what we seek to do.

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Year of Homecoming 2009

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress it is making with preparations for the year of homecoming 2009 and the 250th anniversary of the birth of Robert Burns. (S2O-8734)

We are committed to using the 250th anniversary of Burns's birth as one means to encourage Scots worldwide to return to Scotland. A project director for the year of homecoming has been appointed and an advisory board will help to guide the project. The redevelopment of the Burns national heritage park by the National Trust for Scotland will ensure that the year of homecoming will help future generations to appreciate Burns's contribution to Scottish culture.

I welcome the minister's assurance that the plans for the Burns national heritage park in Alloway are back on track. Does she agree that the 2009 anniversary offers a focus for wider and deeper cultural and educational development? For example, could every school in Scotland be offered resources for projects on the life and times of Robert Burns? Such projects might explore the Scottish enlightenment, which is also known as the story of how Scotland invented the modern world. That would reveal to our children what Scotland and its citizens are capable of—past, present and future.

The project advisory board has been tasked with considering how we should celebrate 2009, but we certainly intend to ensure that the effect of the celebration is felt as widely as possible throughout the length and breadth of our country and beyond. We will look for ways to do that internationally as well as locally and regionally. I am encouraged by the model that is being used for the year of Highland culture in 2007; we will learn lessons from that project too.

Celebrating anniversaries is both important and appropriate. What plans does the Scottish Executive have, in conjunction with colleagues in the United Kingdom Government, to commemorate, celebrate and highlight the innumerable benefits that were accrued by generations following the signing of the treaty of union in 1707?

I am sure that colleagues around the chamber will celebrate that particular anniversary in their own ways and that some will be more imaginative than others. My colleagues at Westminster are considering how the anniversary can be celebrated and we will remain in close contact with them to see whether there is any added value that we can give to those celebrations.

I congratulate the minister on the steps that she has taken in respect of the redevelopment of the Burns national heritage park in Alloway by the National Trust for Scotland. As part of her negotiations, did she consider the museum at Alloway? Many Burns objects remain in storage in locations throughout the country and the Burns Trust had plans for a new museum. Do such plans form part of the work that will be done?

Like many others, and like the trustees of the museum, I was very concerned about the condition of many of the objects that were still on display. One of the things that the Executive has done is put in place curatorial support for the Burns museum to make sure that the precious objects that it holds do not suffer any further deterioration.

Mr Gallie is absolutely right to say that the Burns collection is very much dispersed. Our first step in that connection was to conduct a survey of the dispersed collection so that we knew where it was.

There will be a new museum at Alloway as part of the 2009 year of homecoming. However, we want to ensure not only that the objects that were originally in Alloway are returned there once their safekeeping can be assured, but that people throughout Scotland have the opportunity to enjoy those items that have spent most of their existence in Alloway. We also want to ensure that people in Ayrshire will have the opportunity to enjoy the objects that might have been scattered around Scotland in the 250 years since Burns was born.

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Asylum Seeker Families

To ask the Scottish Executive when it expects an agreement to be reached between it and the United Kingdom Government in respect of policies relating to the removal of the children of failed asylum seeker families. (S2O-8690)

Our discussions with the Home Office are progressing well. In those discussions, we are covering a range of issues relating to policies affecting asylum seeker families. We are aiming to secure improvements on a range of issues, some of which can be progressed more quickly than others.

I am glad—and I am sure that the chamber is glad—that some progress has been made. However, the minister will appreciate that my constituents—and people throughout Scotland—hope that the talks will soon be completed and a positive agreement reached.

Will the minister tell the chamber whether time spent in Scotland by children of asylum seeker families will be considered in the final agreement so that it is properly taken into account when the Home Office makes the decision about whether a family is to be removed or allowed to remain? The minister will know that the Home Office minister Tony McNulty did not rule that out during his interview on "Good Morning Scotland" on 24 November last year.

I am aware of Mr McNulty's interview. As I have said before in this chamber, it is not helpful to conduct negotiations and discussions on this matter by megaphone and in public.

I welcome Mr Butler's on-going interest in the subject. I hope that it is of some help when I tell him today that agreement in broad terms has been reached in three areas. The first is about the involvement of local service providers, such as education, health and social work, in feeding into decision making on whether, how and when to remove failed asylum seeker families from the United Kingdom. The second area of agreement is on the enhanced package of support for voluntary returners announced recently by Tony McNulty. The third area concerns improved arrangements for managed migration for people who enhance the skills base in Scotland.

It is good to hear about some positive developments. However, the minister might be aware that UK ministers recently made a commitment to provide case-specific information to members of Parliament so that the public debate on the matter can be best informed. Given the clearly devolved issues that are concerned, which the Executive recognises, will the minister impress on the UK Government the importance of extending that information provision to members of this Parliament to avoid any cynical perception that ministers might wish to provide information only to their own colleagues?

I hear Mr Harvie's point, but as has been said many times in this chamber, asylum is substantially a matter for the UK Government to decide. Although I am happy to feed in that suggestion to the negotiations and discussions that are taking place, I cannot answer for the view that will be taken by the United Kingdom Government, certainly at this stage.

I advise the deputy minister that at a recent presentation by the Scottish Children's Reporter Administration, in response to my question about whether children could be deported while under investigation, I was given the straight answer yes. That flies in the face of a response last year from the Minister for Justice. I ask the minister whether the forthcoming protocol will deal with that issue and if so, how? If the situation remains as I have described it, does the minister share my concern that children are being deported from Scotland when they are under investigation by the Scottish Children's Reporter Administration?

I reiterate to Ms Grahame the basic proposition that such matters are ultimately and substantially for the United Kingdom Government. I am not prepared to engage in a discussion in this chamber on the negotiations. I have made announcements. A series of issues are being discussed with the UK Government and we will make further announcements when we are able to do so.

Before First Minister's question time, members will wish to join me in greeting the President of the Assembly of Extremadura in Spain, Federico Suárez, and his colleagues. [Applause.]