Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Meeting date: Wednesday, September 16, 2020

Official Report 1024KB pdf

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Museum for Human Rights

The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S5M-22614, in the name of Stuart McMillan, on a museum for human rights. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament notes its agreement to motion S5M-22004 (as amended) on 10 June 2020 (Official Report, c.133), which agreed that the Scottish Government would work to create a national museum to highlight Scotland’s role in the slave trade and colonialism; further notes that there are various locations across Scotland whose history in the slave trade would merit consideration for such a facility; highlights the link that Inverclyde has with the triangular trade and the sugar, tobacco and cotton industries and the financial wealth that was generated for merchants; notes that Inverclyde was reported to be the world leader in the sugar trade, which ensured that vast wealth was created both during and following the abolition of the slave trade in 1833; highlights the building of the historic sugar warehouses at the James Watt Dock in Greenock, which were opened in 1886, and notes the view that, with its existing transport and historical links, in addition to the educational and economic opportunities that could be created for future generations, Inverclyde should be the location for such a museum.

17:41  

I thank all those members who signed the motion, enabling the debate to take place, and those who have stayed to take part in the debate. I also thank everyone who has offered their support and provided feedback on the idea.

Today, I will only scratch the surface of Inverclyde’s history in the transatlantic slave trade and why the museum should be located in my constituency.

At the outset, I clarify one point: although the Slave Trade Act 1807 prohibited the slave trade in the British empire, it did not abolish slavery, which continued until the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, which is the reason why I used that date in the motion. Also, according to black history month 2020, Scots owned nearly 30 per cent of the estates in Jamaica in 1796 and 32 per cent of the plantations by 1817.

I will touch on a few themes: Parliament’s decision in June; Inverclyde’s history; the initial proposal as per my motion; and the actions to date. On that point, I will touch on the fact that Canada has a national museum for human rights in Winnipeg, which Clare Adamson has spoken about in the chamber before and which I am sure she will touch on again today. I believe that that museum could be a positive model for us to look at.

I was not one of the speakers in the debate on showing solidarity with anti-racism in June, but I sat in the chamber and listened to everyone; it was a powerful afternoon. I was pleased that the Parliament voted to address our shameful past—a past that we can never change. Some people would like to erase our past or keep it confined to the shelves, but we must own up to it and educate future generations and ourselves about it. We must learn the lessons of the past and find a way that tells the history of the transatlantic slave trade and how some of Scotland’s wealth was created. Along with today’s announcement in Barbados, it is worth noting that that debate is taking place across the world.

I am not a historian, but a politician. I can never tell the history as historians do, but I can bring to the table political reasons why my constituency should be the location for such a museum.

Various locations in Scotland have played a part in the transatlantic slave trade. As well as Greenock, Port Glasgow and Glasgow, there were Ayr, Dumfries, Bo’ness, Leith, Dundee, and Aberdeen. Greenock and Port Glasgow were the two ports that served Glasgow and, with an increasing number of merchants in Glasgow, the two ports became key in the transatlantic slave trade. I grew up in Port Glasgow and I remember the stories of when the town was called the Port of Glasgow.

Inverclyde’s maritime history has many aspects, and many ships have been built there over the years. However, our maritime links include the sugar, tobacco and cotton industries, which are linked to the transatlantic slave trade. Until the 1750s, Port Glasgow was the main port for voyages to western Africa. Greenock became the larger of the ports and that continued until 1766. Greenock became the main port for the trade in tobacco and sugar. It has been reported that, in time, Greenock became the worldwide port for the sugar trade, although other reports indicate that it was just one of the biggest.

It is a fact that ships with enslaved people left Greenock and Port Glasgow. It is known that 2,692 enslaved people left the two ports to cross the Atlantic to work on plantations and that 471 of those people died during those voyages. I realise that the number of voyages, the number of people transported and the number of people who died on those voyages may not compare with other areas in the UK, such as Liverpool and Bristol, that—and I use the word advisedly—benefited from the slave trade and its associated industries. But that does not mean that this part of Scotland’s history should be only quietly reflected upon. Each of those people was a human being.

Scotland’s history in the transatlantic slave trade goes beyond that of just Greenock and Port Glasgow and it is right that a museum be created. The fact that Scotland is now prepared to fully face up to and to own its past is a welcome step.

There is a variety of reasons why a museum of human rights could be based at the sugar warehouses at James Watt dock. First, the history of the building as part of the sugar industry, which was built on the back of slavery, highlights that the wealth generated by the slave trade and associated industries is still visible today.

Secondly, the vast size of the building gives the opportunity to deliver something of educational stature. The building could be divided into multiple facilities, including the excellent and innovative proposition from the Clyde Atlantic trust to create a fully immersive maritime museum. There would be space for other activities too.

Thirdly, other parts of Scotland’s negative history could also be explored. For example, the stories of the Highland clearances and of the 1820 martyrs could be incorporated; both those stories have strong local connections. The museum could explore the story of why—in addition to those who left Leith—600,000 Scots left Greenock to go to the new world. There is also the history of Irish immigrants to Scotland and of how they were treated.

Those ideas could get people to imagine what we could achieve to educate future and current generations. Any museum must focus on the transatlantic slave trade and colonialism, as per the agreed amended motion passed here in June. That does not mean that the museum cannot touch upon other aspects of Scotland’s past.

Fourthly, the site is located at the historic James Watt dock in Greenock. Watt himself was not involved in the transatlantic slave trade, but he did profit from it.

Fifthly, the educational, social and economic opportunities for Inverclyde and Scotland are such that a project of this size could have a transformational effect on my constituency.

I studied in Dundee in the 1990s. It is wonderful to see the change that is happening there now and I am proud of that city for its level of ambition. Placing the museum in Inverclyde could transform it, bringing inward investment, reversing population decline and making Inverclyde socially and economically stronger.

The Scottish Government’s programme for government talks about starting to examine ways to address migration and to support areas dealing with population decline. I questioned the minister, Ben MacPherson, on that last week at the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee. The museum in Inverclyde could be part of that solution.

I have done a number of things so far. I have spoken to Sir Geoff Palmer and David Hayman. I have undertaken a variety of press activity, which has helped to garner wider support. I have also established a short-life working group that includes Ronnie Cowan MP; the principal of West College Scotland; Scottish Enterprise; the Inverclyde Chamber of Commerce; Creative Inverclyde; the Clyde Atlantic trust; singer-songwriter Matthew Hickman; and the television presenter Jean Johansson. I have also invited the leader of Inverclyde Council to join the group and we are hopeful that he can do so once internal council procedures are fulfilled.

I have also spoken with Lucy Casot of Museums Galleries Scotland, which is taking forward the project for the Scottish Government. Lucy will speak to the working party on Monday. The Heritage Lottery Fund has also been engaged and has agreed to speak virtually to the group. We have met three times and have an agreed purpose to bring this facility to Inverclyde.

We are discussing the sugar warehouses today and the process has begun. Greenock still has other historical buildings, including the glebe, which was a sugar refinery, and the tobacco warehouse. Those buildings are a stone’s throw from each other in Greenock town centre.

I am conscious of the time, Presiding Officer.

I was born in Barrow-in-Furness but grew up in Port Glasgow. It is still my home town, even though I no longer live there. As a boy, I never knew or questioned why we had a Kingston Yard in the town, or why there was a Jamaica Street, Tobago Street, Togo Place and Virginia Street in Greenock. I had no idea about the Gourock crest of arms and its links to the Darroch family, who made their fortune as sugar merchants in Jamaica in 1700s. That story was quite a revelation to many people locally during the summer.

A museum of human rights, focusing on the transatlantic slave trade, would not be out of place in Inverclyde. Sadly, we have many links to that trade—I have only touched on them. I would like to educate younger generations about the past to improve the future.

We can use the museum as the foundation stone on which to build a regeneration project that will breathe new life into an area that is much in need of a helping hand, that has suffered many social ills over many decades and is again reeling, this time from the effects of Covid-19.

I believe that a beacon of hope emerging from the clouds of Scotland’s past would be a fitting way to honour those whose lives were lost and taken by our inglorious colonial history.

17:51  

I thank Stuart McMillan for securing the debate. I admire his tenacity on behalf of his constituency and he has made a good case for a museum of human rights being based there.

The member is right to say that I visited the Canadian Museum for Human Rights on a visit from this Parliament in 2017. That was a profound experience. I had never before come across such a museum. The manner in which the Canadians have approached the issue is incredible. They established the museum in 2008, by amending their Museums Act 1990. The Canadian Museum for Human Rights is seen as a national and international destination centre of learning, where people from all round the world can engage in discussion about and commit to taking action against hate and oppression.

Mr McMillan has laid out the foundations for what a museum in Scotland could be about. I was intrigued by some of the displays that I saw at the museum in Canada. One of its measures to educate younger children is an interactive floor. When someone walks on to it, a single-coloured circle appears underneath their feet. In order to get the pattern moving, people have to engage with one another. It is a simple metaphor to say to the young people that, unlike being on their own, interaction enriches beauty and life.

The museum also has a jury exhibit with real-life cases that have gone through the Canadian courts. We know that Canada has had to deal with the issues that we have been talking about. Indeed, it has also had to deal with the issue of its first nation people, who were treated so badly in the past, and the reparations that have been made.

The two aspects that I took from the museum are education and bearing honest witness to the past and what colonialism has meant for Canada as a country. The education part of that is key. Earlier this year, I was delighted to work with North Lanarkshire councillors Danish Ashraf and Aggie Macgowan, when they presented a motion asking for education to include an honest look at the colonial history of our country, which I believe was the first motion of its type to be passed in a council in Scotland. That happened after the Black Lives Matter movement had taken hold. I was delighted that North Lanarkshire Council agreed the motion.

I pay tribute to two of my young constituents, Aleisha and Lauryn Omeike. Of mixed-race background, they spoke out at that time about what it was like for them growing up in Scotland and the lack of knowledge about why they were here, what the history of their family was and how they integrated into our country. It is so important that we pay tribute to the people who are asking for that engagement. When the programme for government was announced, I was delighted to see the commitment on education.

I am not asking for the museum to be in my constituency, although some others in the chamber might do so. My ask of the minister this evening is for an indication of how people such as the Omeike twins, or the council group in North Lanarkshire, can engage with the Government to ensure that education on Black Lives Matter and colonial history is taken forward, and that their voices are heard during the development of those programmes.

17:55  

I thank Stuart McMillan for bringing this important debate to the Parliament. His motion refers to a previous debate that was held in the chamber back in June, when, I am pleased to report, there was cross-party support to create a museum of slavery here in Scotland, and now we are considering where it should be.

Over the summer, we witnessed the appalling death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The terrible action of violence that was carried out by a police officer has led to widespread anti-racism protests throughout the USA and has sent shock waves across the world, including in Scotland.

As protests in Edinburgh and Glasgow encouraged us all to hold debate and discussion about how we build a more equal future here, we must not forget Scots’ participation in slavery. In his motion, Stuart McMillan refers to Inverclyde’s past, which we have heard more about this evening. The area prospered due to the slave trade, by importing slave products such as sugar. The great tobacco trade of the 18th century in Glasgow could not have existed without slave labour, and working on the plantations was a false choice for Scots who were seeking their fortunes in the late 18th and early 19th century. Historians have argued that Scotland’s relationship with transatlantic slavery is encased in a collective amnesia—a widespread lack of awareness of how our country participated in both the slave trade and slavery.?

In June, a group of protesters toppled the statue of a former slave trader, Sir Edward Colston. Following that action, there were calls from across Scotland to remove statues and street names that honour individuals who were involved in the slave trade. However, I have concerns about using the common moral standards of today as benchmarks by which to judge past behaviour. Is it right that the University of Edinburgh has taken the decision to temporarily rename David Hume tower because of the 18th century philosopher’s comments on race?

I believe that it is not possible to make a moral balance sheet of the past. I am not suggesting that historical figures should escape our moral judgment, but we have to accept that our past contains uncomfortable truths. Rather than hide our past from the future generations, surely it is better to change attitudes through education and museums, as we are talking about tonight. I agree with Sir Geoff Palmer, Scotland’s first black professor, who stated:

“if you remove the evidence you remove the deed.”

I believe that there is an opportunity to create a museum with the responsibility to reflect and debate history accurately, and, in doing so, to confront, challenge and learn from the uncomfortable truths of Scotland’s history and our past.

As we have heard tonight from Clare Adamson, she spoke in the debate in June about the profound experience of visiting the Canadian museum for human rights. Canada’s national museum is a unique exploration of the importance of human rights. It is located in a stunning building, and its mandate is to explore the subject of human rights, with special but not exclusive reference to Canada, in order to enhance the public’s understanding of human rights, promote respect for others and encourage reflection and dialogue. I feel that such a model could be used to articulate and examine Scotland’s role in the slave trade and to explore the diversity of human rights, whether in relation to the Holocaust, the suffragette movement, employee rights or what is happening in China at the moment.

Inverclyde, with its historical links to the slave trade, may well be the right place to put the museum—we have heard a compelling argument for that tonight. It is important that the museum reflects the lived experience of individuals, preserves and promotes Scottish heritage, overcomes ignorance and inspires learning to do better today and in the future.

18:00  

I welcome the motion and the debate that has been secured by Stuart McMillan. We must recognise, as Jeremy Balfour did, that the Black Lives Matter movement and the death of George Floyd have been instrumental in the renewed focus and debate in Scotland and across the UK on our country’s past links with colonialism and the slave trade. It is important that we actively consider those issues and how we respond to them, in discussion not just in Parliament but across the wider country, too. Although we cannot erase the past, we can do more to ensure that we remember it honestly. A national museum of human rights would be one way to achieve that. I therefore support the idea of having a national museum and establishing it in Inverclyde.

Earlier this year, Inverclyde Council set up a working group in response to the new public discussion on our past. A council report reflects honestly on how Inverclyde was a hub for the slave trade, as Stuart McMillan and others have said. Inverclyde was particularly active in sugar and tobacco trading. Regrettably, Greenock’s first member of Parliament, Robert Wallace, owned and co-mortgaged five plantations in Jamaica and owned more than 500 slaves. Therefore, Inverclyde would be an appropriate place for such a museum, and I support the aspirations and hopes that are expressed in the motion. A national museum must commit itself to a wide-ranging recognition of our entire country’s role; Stuart McMillan raised some important points about how other issues affecting people’s history could be incorporated.

There are a couple of obvious questions for the Scottish Government on this topic. The Government has said that it is supportive of the idea, but it would be helpful to know whether the Government is committed to a single physical space or whether it is considering options such as virtual or pop-up exhibitions across the country to explore different regional contributions to the slave trade. Secondly, we can all respect the fact that, as one of the areas worst hit by the Covid crisis, Inverclyde would benefit from the creation of a museum, but it would be unfair for one council, which is already suffering due to cuts, to bear the cost of a national museum. Therefore, it would also be helpful to know whether the Government is prepared to fully fund the capital and revenue costs of a national museum.

In considering the proposal, the Government must also commit to using education in our schools as another way of recognising our past links with colonialism. Like other members, I have raised with the education secretary the view that Scottish pupils should be taught about our abhorrent historical links with slavery. I raised that issue following representations from young people and teachers, who contacted me because they are upset that their education has left this piece of Scottish history untouched. I welcome the confirmation that a reference guide on key resources on black history and minority ethnic heritage has been made available. However, the Government must go further and ensure that there are direct, accurate and detailed resources about Scotland’s past. As Stuart McMillan said, Inverclyde’s and Scotland’s history are inextricably linked with colonialism and slave trading, so there is scope to build on the curriculum that we have and go further in teaching a more honest representation of Scotland’s past and past Scots.

The discussion on Scotland’s past will not go away, and nor should it. This is an opportunity to redouble our efforts in the campaign for equality. Although we are discussing today the injustices of the past, it is clear that there is also injustice today on which we must take action. Coronavirus has disproportionately hit black and minority ethnic communities, and black and minority ethnic people continue to be chronically underrepresented in Scottish public life. We must also take action against modern-day slavery. The Co-operative Party suggests that there are 13,000 victims of modern slavery in the UK, and I renew my support for its campaign.

Slavery was one of the great evils in society, and it remains so. Even today, tens of thousands of people across the UK are believed to be victims of forced labour, sexual exploitation and modern forms of slavery. Understanding the past helps us to understand the injustices of today. Our role now is to remember past injustices while fighting against those injustices that continue to prevail in Scottish society today.

I call Stewart Stevenson, to be followed by Jamie Greene.

Mr Stevenson, are you muted?

18:04  

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I manually switched on my microphone; I had expected it to come on from your end.

I thank Stuart McMillan for the opportunity to discuss this important subject. In passing, I will comment on the 1820 martyrs, to whom Mr McMillan referred. Our colleague Gil Paterson had a members’ business debate on that on 5 December 2001, which happened to be the third debate in which I participated after I joined the Parliament. Of course, that subject was important to me, because John Baird was my great-great-great-uncle.

However, to the matter at hand. There are many places across Scotland that we could consider for a museum, but the sugar warehouse in James Watt dock in Greenock is perhaps one of the most significant symbols of Scotland’s relationship with slavery and would, as such, be a perfect site, because it would juxtapose the brutal human costs of slavery with a symbol of Scotland’s economic wealth.

It is hard for a modern person to recognise our connection to that time. However, my grandfather was an infant when Abraham Lincoln managed to abolish slavery in the United States, so the temporal distance might be shorter than some of us care to imagine. The human psyche has a habit of distancing itself from unpleasant things—all the more so when the subject is something as violent and abhorrent as slavery. The brutal legacy of much of colonialism belongs to us as much as anything else does.

There are many places where a museum on the topic could be sited, including in the north-east, which I represent. We need only consider the Powis gates in Aberdeen, which were built by Hugh Fraser Leslie in 1834. The gates feature carvings of slaves, making direct reference to the several coffee plantations that he owned in Jamaica.

The connections do not end there. Former students of Marischal College became involved in the slave trade. There were people who inherited wealth from the trade and even some who were involved in the abduction of slaves from Africa. No matter where a person is from in this nation, they will have at least some connection to that dark part of our history.

A museum will give us the opportunity to take some responsibility, but it will be far from the only and final step in doing so. Rather, it will be a first and very useful step. It represents a new chapter in our maturation as a nation and as human beings.

We have a responsibility to uphold the human rights of all people in the present and to recognise our failings in the past. We should not pretend that the unpleasant past never happened by simply trying to erase it. There have been interesting comments made in that regard. I share the belief that we should not tear down statues, but should instead rewrite the context in which they exist, because they remind us of a dark past that we should not seek to erase.

A museum could represent a signal that we have come to recognise the iniquities of our predecessors, and to recognise that our society should reward honesty, growth and knowledge. However, the benefits of a museum will go much further than that and will force us to look at the truth of our past brutality. If we are anything as human beings, we carry compassion. I hope that, when a museum is established, we will share responsibility for our history through it, and that it inspires us to be compassionate and to be the best that we can be. I hope that such an establishment will be a light to guide us out of darkness and ignorance.

I congratulate Stuart McMillan on his championship of local interests and of the interests of his constituency. That is exactly the exemplar that all members should look to. I am happy to support his efforts.

18:09  

I thank the member for Greenock and Inverclyde for bringing the debate to Parliament. I am delighted to speak in it for two reasons. First, I would not miss the opportunity to talk about my home town in a national debate in our Parliament, given that town’s historical connections with the subject that we debate; and secondly, and more importantly, I participated in the previous debate that we had on the subject.

My interest in the issue is to do with education because, ultimately, as far as I am concerned, this is not really a debate about whether we should have such a museum or where it should be; it is a debate about what its purpose would be and what benefits it would offer. For me, education lies at the heart of understanding our heritage, our history and our culture. If it is taught properly, it can enlighten us in a way that means that we often criticise with the judgments of today those who thought themselves enlightened in the past.

I am phenomenally proud of Greenock, and am proud of having been born and brought up there. I am proud of Greenock’s rich history, and I am proud to be able to represent it as part of my West Scotland region. It really has punched above its weight in the world. We have produced the likes of the great engineer James Watt, the great comedian Chic Murray and the great novelist Lin Anderson, whose genre—tartan noir—could easily describe the subject matter that we are discussing today. Historically, we were at the heart of the United Kingdom’s trade with the rest of the world, and I think that we should be overwhelmingly proud of what we have achieved and of the town’s contribution to the world in all those fields.

However, it is undoubtedly the case, as others have pointed out, that there are aspects of our history that are darker, and which should be explored and learned from, including our role in the triangular trade between continents, when, unfortunately, ships would carry not just coffee and tobacco, but people. That is undeniable. It is difficult for us, but it is not something that we should shy away from. Just as we marvel at the glory of the buildings, art and statues of that period, at the institutions and philanthropic efforts of the time, and at the infrastructure that those enlightened people built, we cannot be in denial about the source—in many cases—of their wealth.

However, I will say this: I was not there. I was brought up with the phrase, “Who am I to judge another when I walk imperfectly?” I think that anachronistic judgment of the deeds of history does us no favours. I believe that a credible compromise is to acknowledge that people did things then that we no longer deem to be appropriate, legal or moral, while accepting that not all those deeds were cruel or corrupt.

For me, James Watt, the great son of Greenock, epitomises that. He had such a great mind and was such a great thinker, but for many people is now tainted by the source of his wealth. I studied at James Watt College in Greenock with a great sense of pride. The connotations of his inventive mind were things to be proud of.

Let us look at how other countries have dealt with their chequered past. Mention has been made of Canada. The mission of the Canadian Museum of History in Quebec is to give pride of place to the first peoples. My Canadian family taught me to participate in and respect the culture of Canada’s indigenous population, and its history in Ontario, where many of my family still live. When I lived down under, I visited the Australian Museum in Sydney, which explores in great detail the history of the aboriginal population who lived there long before we did. New Zealand has taken a different route by embracing its past with a great deal of pride. This week is Maori language week, which is celebrated by all parts of Kiwi culture. The International Slavery Museum in Liverpool in the city’s Royal Albert dock is a great example of a museum that is more than bricks and mortar; it is a living centre of study and learning, and is something for the community to be proud of. It is not simply a building of judgment.

Surely we can do the same here on our shores. A new national museum on our heritage should, in my view, be based in Greenock, and the James Watt dock sugar sheds provide an ideal location—but if that is not possible, it could go elsewhere. The symbolism of that alone should serve as Greenock’s second beacon—one of light, acknowledgement and hope.

18:13  

I congratulate Stuart McMillan on bringing this incredibly interesting and informative debate to the chamber and on securing support for his motion from across the Parliament. I have enjoyed all the speeches and they have given me much to think on.

The motion acknowledges the presence across Scotland of various locations that have links to slavery and that should be considered in the planning for a new national museum, the proposal for which was agreed to by the Parliament. Although I cannot give commitments to Mr McMillan or Mr Greene on a permanent site in Inverclyde, I congratulate Mr McMillan on his considerable efforts for Inverclyde and Greenock, of which I know that he is a true champion. Notwithstanding that, I know that Stewart Stevenson has just made a bid for the north-east of Scotland as well, and I reassure Neil Bibby that we are looking at all the options, including some of the more virtual options in the work with the Hunterian; there are many ways in which we can do this.

We have a rich, but complex history and our challenge is in accepting the unacceptable truths of our past, as we have discussed. The trading of humans as slaves, as chattel and as property, is absolutely unthinkable to us now, notwithstanding the challenges that we have with modern slavery. It is deeply incompatible with notions of dignity, respect, the autonomy of the individual or indeed their human rights. In Scotland, we have tended to think of ourselves as distant from the transatlantic slave trade. We convinced ourselves with some romantic notion that we were remote from the abuses of empire and exploitation, but we just need to take a walk down Virginia street for that notion to be smashed from our heads.

As the debate has highlighted, a significant part of the wealth that flowed into 18th century Scotland came directly from the sugar, tobacco and cotton industries that in turn built and shaped cities, towns and communities across Scotland. As we acknowledge, there are many legacies that we are confronted with—street names, historical statues, monuments and museum artefacts—that, although once celebrated, have become symbols of injustice and pain for many, many people. Our places and museums can bring us face to face with parts of our history that are shameful by today’s standards. As Jeremy Balfour said, that is an important way to change attitudes.

During black history month in October last year, I went on a historical walk through Glasgow city centre, organised by the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights—CRER—and guided by Dr Stephen Mullen, whom many of you will know. I recommend doing that walk if you get the opportunity. Many people do not understand the reasons why Jamaica Street, Virginia Street and others are named as such, but I did that day, from that experience. As set out in our programme for government earlier this month, we recognise that we must find a better way to present a more accurate portrayal of Scotland’s colonial and slavery history and re-examine how we interpret Scotland’s past through our public heritage.

The people who came to Scotland through the slave trade and the British empire, and their descendants, have made an enormous contribution to our country, yet many of their achievements are not celebrated and their stories are not told in the many museums and heritage centres across Scotland. That must change.

As Neil Bibby suggested, there is much more to do and I hope that this debate, the debate that we had in June and the debate that we will have next week will look at some of those wider actions that we need to take, especially those regarding the recommendations from the expert reference group on Covid and ethnicity.

To that end, the Scottish Government is proud to be working with Museums Galleries Scotland to commission an independent expert review group, which will bring together public and expert voices to make recommendations to ensure that people in Scotland are aware of the role that our country has played in past injustices as well as the positive legacies, and how both elements continue in our society.

Both anti-racism work and improving ethnic minority representation in society are crucial for delivering our vision of a Scotland where everyone is treated equally. I hope that there is a very different look to this chamber after we return from the election next year.

An important first step will be to ensure the involvement of diverse representation from across the race equality and museum sectors in the museum advisory group. That is a key element in what we need to do. The group’s expert opinions will be considered alongside findings from a national consultation to include the many and varied views of the people of Scotland, including whether there should be a national museum. I wish to reassure CRER, which wrote to me last night—and I will respond in full—that the work that it has been doing over the past few years will definitely be included in that approach.

The debate provides us with an opportunity to recognise efforts to promote equality and what has already begun within the heritage sector. The V&A has already announced that it is reviewing the stuff that it has in its museums and how that is presented.

I thank the minister for her comments, in which there is much to be welcomed. Can I ask her to confirm whether it is the Government’s position that it is not considering a physical museum but looking at options that may include a virtual museum, or is it the case that we are trying to find the right place for a building and how to fund it?

We will commission the group to come up with ideas about whether there should be a physical building, or a combination of virtual and physical or something else. We should leave that to the expert group and the people who have been campaigning along with CRER for a long time to say what we really need in Scotland. I hope that we get some diverse and interesting recommendations from the expert group; I am sure that we will, given the walk-through that I did with it in Glasgow last year. There are lots of interesting options.

There is a project funded by Museums Galleries Scotland called curating discomfort. The name speaks for itself. The project is led by the Hunterian in Glasgow, and it aims to identify new and inclusive ways to interpret existing collections to better address the many meanings and implications of the historical assets in their care. We have much to learn from other examples, such as those explained by Clare Adamson and Jamie Greene after their visits to Canada and Australia, and the approaches taken there.

Equality for us all is critical, nationally and locally, so it is vital to have these conversations in all the spheres that allow us to do so. Glasgow City Council demonstrated that in a recent motion from Councillor Graham Campbell and Councillor Annette Christie, which expresses solidarity with equality campaigners and commits to continuing the work with CRER. The council remains an “unwavering voice” alongside that of the Government

“that amplifies the idea that Black Lives Matter.”

It is good to hear about the motion in North Lanarkshire Council and that young people are learning about their heritage. In a few minutes, I will address the questions about education that Jamie Greene and Clare Adamson asked.

As a nation we are proud to recognise and protect the intrinsic value of all people, and to champion the pillars of dignity, equality and respect for everyone in our modern and inclusive Scotland. Human rights is very much at the heart of that. We are determined to engage in eradicating racism, inequality and injustice, and to build a better, fairer world. That is why we allocated £2.6 million last year to fund organisations that are working to advance race equality.

As Stuart McMillan, Jeremy Balfour, Neil Bibby, Clare Adamson and Stewart Stevenson said, we must not erase or ignore difficult elements of our history. Instead, we should seek to reinterpret them, adding new layers of meaning to develop better understanding of how we want to live together, working with others, and that is what this Government is committed to doing.

I also agree with Professor Sir Geoff Palmer’s points. Jamie Greene and Clare Adamson asked me specifically about education. We have funded the fairer future panel through Young Scot to look at the issue, and we are looking at ways of engaging Young Scot in that. Intercultural Youth Scotland, which is an amazing organisation based here in Edinburgh, has been funded to support minority ethnic young people throughout the pandemic. The Deputy First Minister is already working with partners to look at the curriculum, and I hope that he will have more to say about that in the weeks to come.

The work of the expert reference group and the accompanying national consultation will open up a conversation on this very important subject in all the areas that every member has mentioned tonight. They will deliver insights that will help us to establish how we can better manage, present and interpret those elements of our heritage to ensure that we look forward to an equal future and look back in a balanced and unbiased way. I look forward to progressing that work.

Meeting closed at 18:23.