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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 800 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

Four minutes is not a lot of time in which to sum up the debate, so let me get straight to the point and start with the wise words of Stewart McDonald, the former MP who used to be the SNP’s spokesperson on defence. He has already been referenced by Stephen Kerr, but this is well worth repeating. This is what he said:

“Having worked hard on defence policy for my party when an MP, it pains me to see we are not evolving with the serious times we live in.”

Stewart McDonald, who is the SNP expert on defence, is absolutely right. In these uncertain times, with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, and now the war between Israel and Iran, the world is now undoubtedly a less stable place. It is therefore the most important task of any Government to provide security for the country and its people.

Mr McDonald had more to say. He said that we should be more ambitious in our support of Scotland’s domestic defence sector, while still maintaining our commitment to good human rights practice. Indeed, he said all that in the policy paper “Think Like a State, Act Like a State”. Despite John Swinney’s recent rhetoric about dusting down his aspiration for independence, the SNP’s attitude to defence clearly demonstrates that it is incapable of the grown-up thinking and action required. Instead, the defence industries are treated like a dirty little secret and, as we now know, the SNP would send forces personnel into the field with peashooters.

That is what lies behind the bonkers decision on Rolls-Royce. There was almost universal astonishment that the SNP Government withheld a grant of £2.5 million to Rolls-Royce for a welding centre. Why? In so far as I understand its thinking, it was because the people being trained might work on the construction of a submarine, which has munitions on it. The training opportunities and the good jobs that Rolls-Royce would have provided for people in west and central Scotland should have been welcomed. So, too, should the investment by the Malin Group in establishing a marine technology park in West Dunbartonshire.

Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

No.

Apparently, it is SNP Government policy not to fund any jobs relating to munitions—a policy that is not fit for the world as it is now, a policy based on ideology, not security, and a policy that is inconsistently applied.

Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

No.

Can the cabinet secretary explain to me why Ferguson’s shipyard, which is owned and funded by the SNP Government, is able to do contract work for BAE Systems, which builds warships? Just in case she did not know, warships have munitions on them. Thank goodness that John Healey, Labour’s Secretary of State for Defence, has said that he will step in, because the SNP has failed to step up.

Conscious of the time and drawing my remarks to a close, I welcome the strategic defence review. I very much welcome the investment that has been brought forward by a UK Labour Government: billions of pounds for improved housing for forces personnel and for new submarines, which will have a direct and positive impact on His Majesty’s naval base Clyde in my constituency. I am very grateful to those at the base, both serving personnel and staff, who are working for partners such as Babcock, which, through their efforts, contribute to the security of our country. We need to equip them to do their job, however.

Defence might be reserved, but growing the economy, investing in manufacturing and providing skills and training are all devolved and the responsibility of the Scottish Government. The SNP has lost sight of that. Instead, it wants to play student politics. It is simply not serious. It is time for change.

16:58  

Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

Will the cabinet secretary give way?

Meeting of the Parliament

Defence Sector (Economic Contribution)

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer, could you give an indication of whether the cabinet secretary’s time has been cut again?

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

The cabinet secretary should tell that to the almost 2,000 people who are stuck in a hospital due to delayed discharge.

Not only are ambulances unable to attend calls, doctors cannot get jobs, despite record-high waiting lists for treatment, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists is reporting a £240 million shortfall in the face of a mental health emergency. The Scottish National Party has been in power for 18 years now. It has presided over this crisis. If it had an idea of how to fix it, surely we would have seen it by now.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Health and Social Care

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

Of course. In this year alone, services are being cut to the bone—

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Health and Social Care

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

—with announcements of measures that will never deliver—

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Health and Social Care

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Jackie Baillie

There was.