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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 3340 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Our main agenda item is further consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on the Scottish National Investment Bank, which came out earlier this year. We have previously taken evidence from representatives of the bank and, before that, we took evidence from the Auditor General and his team. This morning, we are joined by Scottish Government representatives to give us their views on the report and to answer our questions. I am pleased to welcome to the committee Gregor Irwin, who is the director general for economy. Alongside Mr Irwin is Richard Rollison, who is the director for international trade and investment. We are also joined by Andy Hogg, who is the deputy director for investment and financial services.

As I said, we have a number of questions to put to you, director general, but, before we get to those, I invite you to give us a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I take it that you accept in full each of the report’s recommendations.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Mr Hogg, do you want to give us more information about the workings of the business investment group?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, but we, as a committee, have been interested in the balance between those bigger transnational corporation investments and investments in small and medium-sized enterprises. The figure quoted in the report, which was supplied to the Auditor General by the bank, is that 92.3 per cent of all investments have been made in SMEs; however, that does not sound right, because we know about the Gresham House Forestry Fund, Quantum at Ardersier and so on. The figure for investment that we have arrived at is nearer to a 60:40 balance between SMEs and non-SMEs. I do not know whether you can verify that.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Well, is it a yes or a no—what is the Scottish Government’s position?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay—I understand that you may need to leave us now.

On that last point, Mr Denholm announced on 10 April that he was planning to step down, and today is 10 September, which is five months later. What stage is the bank at in the recruitment of his replacement?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you expect that, by the six-month mark—10 October—there will be an announcement about who the new chief executive officer for the Scottish National Investment Bank is?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

You said—and I think that it is recorded in the Auditor General’s report—that the bank is well governed. However, when the Auditor General gave evidence to the committee on 28 May, he also said that overgovernance is

“a real risk to be managed.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 28 May 2025; c19.]

I have listened to the description of the various bits of apparatus, some of which are described in exhibit 3 of the Auditor General’s report. There is a business investment group; a Scottish Government ministerial advisory group; the board of the National Investment Bank itself; and there is this figure who acts as a provider of independent oversight and who, as you have described it, liaises. There is a danger, is there not, that, at a strategic level, and even possibly at an operational level, there are lots of cooks who might spoil the broth?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

But you are vigilant, no doubt.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

I do not want to labour this point but, just for clarity, my understanding, from reading the Auditor General’s report and then from the exchanges that we had with the chair of the bank back in June, was that the Treasury was undertaking a discrete review to look at the rules, and possibly the legislative framework, around these public financial institutions, which are presumably the PuFins that you are talking about—the National Wealth Fund and so on.

Has such a discrete review started? Has it been completed? Have recommendations been made and are the chancellor or Treasury officials now musing over those, or have they decided, or what? When Mr Beattie asked Mr Rollison about the timetable, it was all a bit woolly. However, the recommendation in the report is that, within three months of those recommendations, action should be taken.