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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1025 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

What was the alternative to protect teacher numbers? We tried very hard with local authorities to find out what that would be, but that was a challenging conversation and we were unable to come to any conclusion, so I had to take the action that I took. There is no alternative that I have in front of me or that has been presented to me that would have protected teacher numbers.

I will make a final point. We concluded the budget process yesterday. At no point in that process did any Opposition party come forward with costed plans on how to increase the amount that is given to local government, if they wanted that. There are more demands for spending money but few to no suggestions about where that money would come from. I am afraid that the reality of the situation is that there is a lack of alternatives.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Yes, I think that we are agreeing with each other.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

As the Deputy First Minister tried to explain to you yesterday in the chamber, Mr Kerr, £33 million of that comes from the 2022-23 budget. That has been done with exceptional difficulty and not without consequences, to ensure that we can improve the offer for 2022-23.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It comes from the decisions that we have taken on savings and analysing the money that we have for 2022-23 to ensure that we can—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Well, indeed, and every single time, Mr Kerr, you demand that I put a new offer on the table—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I will say a couple of things about that.

Overall, local authorities spend £6.4 billion on education. I note that figure to give some balance to some of the numbers that you have mentioned.

I have a funny feeling that, if we, as a Government, did not come in and do something that would protect teacher numbers, Opposition parties would be jumping up and down—indeed, they were at First Minister’s question time—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Mr Marra, you should let me answer the question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

How I thought that that money should be spent was not in any way private. I remember discussing it a great deal in Parliament. How it was to be spent was very public. Similarly, the discussions with COSLA went on at that level as well. I said it in Parliament and directly to COSLA. Of course, the money then went from the Scottish Government to the settlement distribution group, which had to decide how it will be divided between the 32 local authorities. There is no dubiety about how the—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Thank you, convener.

As I have highlighted previously, the current budget is taking place in a turbulent economic context. The Scottish Government is not immune from that turbulence, and we continue to take decisions that will achieve the greatest impact on the outcomes that we are seeking to achieve. At a macro scale, that means adopting a firm focus on tackling child poverty, creating a wellbeing economy with a just transition to net zero and ensuring the sustainability of first-class public services.

With those outcomes in mind, the committee will be aware of my recent statement regarding our commitment to protect teacher and support staff numbers, and the current number of learning hours for children. As I said in the chamber, I remain grateful

“to our colleagues in local government for their dedication to the delivery of a first-class education for our children and young people. For example, we remain close to record levels of teacher numbers, and our pupil teacher ratio remains historically low, at 13.2. Last year, we witnessed the biggest single-year decrease in the attainment gap in primary numeracy and literacy levels since records began”.—[Official Report, 7 February 2023; c 25.]

Equally, I understand the difficult budgetary choices that local government faces. However, it is my responsibility, as education secretary, to ensure that we have in place the fundamentals to build on the current success. That is why we have funded new financial commitments around the funding that we have provided for teacher numbers and pupil support staff. In particular, that is to at least maintain teacher numbers at current levels in the year ahead, while working towards the delivery of our commitment to increase teacher numbers by 3,500 by the end of this session of Parliament; to maintain the number of school support staff at their current levels; and to continue to ensure that places are available for probationary teachers on the teacher induction scheme who need them.

In addition, the committee will have seen the reports that some councils were considering a reduction to the length of the school week. There is already statutory provision that pupils must receive 190 school days per year, but I am concerned that a reduction in learning hours would materially reduce pupil attainment and wellbeing. For that reason, I will commence the provision in the Education (Scotland) Act 2016 that will enable ministers to set the minimum number of learning hours in a school year. Following thorough consultation, I will bring forward regulations that will specify the minimum number of learning hours per annum and effectively provide a statutory basis for the pupil week. There is currently some limited variation in delivery across Scotland. That has arisen for a range of reasons, and it will need to be fully explored through the consultation, and considered before regulations are laid. Those regulations will be subject to affirmative parliamentary procedure.

Finally, I take the opportunity to update the committee briefly on the teacher pay negotiations. Notwithstanding financial challenges, the Scottish Government has demonstrated our commitment to teachers to provide a fair pay offer in 2022-23 and is now providing further additional funding to enable the two-year pay deal offer to teachers. That offer will provide the most experienced teachers at the top of the main grade pay scale—70 per cent of all teachers—with a pay increase of more than £5,000 in comparison with January 2022.

In comparison to the previous offer, the new offer significantly increases the financial envelope, with an overall cumulative increase of 11.83 per cent for the majority of staff over two years. Although some other unions are currently consulting their members, the committee will have seen that the Educational Institute of Scotland has already rejected that enhancement. Although I am obviously disappointed, it goes without saying that the current disruption is extremely difficult for young people, parents and carers, and I will continue to do everything that I can to secure a deal that is fair and affordable for all.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Yes, and I would be happy to provide written detail on that. As I said, there was no dubiety in public or private with Government, Parliament or COSLA about how the money would be spent.