Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, June 28, 2023

Official Report 1008KB pdf

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Parliamentary Bureau Motions

The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-09756, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees that the Deposit and Return Scheme for Scotland Amendment Regulations 2023 [draft] be approved.—[George Adam]

17:05  

I confirm that Scottish Labour will support this SSI today, out of necessity. However, I want to speak to it, given the unusual circumstances that we are in. The Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity admitted to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee that “further regulations” will need to be laid after the summer recess to—again—delay the date on which the deposit return scheme goes live in Scotland. We do not need to have another debate on how we got here—we have had plenty of discussion on that point.

However, I raise the point that, at this moment, MSPs and, more importantly, producers, companies and the industry are still waiting to find out what the next steps will be, despite the hundreds of millions of pounds that has been invested. I was told that the minister was due to meet MSPs from all parties to discuss the DRS, but the minister cancelled that meeting.

I am very keen for us to hear what happens next and what on-going discussions are taking place, because we do not know what action the Scottish Government is now taking, what policy position it has or what it wants to see the United Kingdom Government do around the roll-out of the UK-wide scheme, which we understand is some time off. There has always been a policy position of finding alignment where possible, but we need to know the position so that Parliament has an opportunity to help to shape that alignment.

As I said at the beginning, we will support the SSI out of necessity. It would, however, be helpful to get an assurance from the Government today that the minister in charge of the deposit return scheme will set out the next steps and inform Parliament of its view on UK-wide implementation. What opportunities did the minister, Lorna Slater, take to work with other devolved Governments and the UK Government to design a UK-wide deposit return scheme that works for us, in Scotland, and for other parts of the UK?

It would be helpful if the minister would agree to meet Opposition spokespeople, as that would be a way for us to keep involved on a cross-party basis and know what is happening with next steps in the scheme.

17:08  

The regulations that we are discussing today were laid on 17 May, before the UK Government’s last-minute decision on the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 after almost two years of talks, which imposed unworkable conditions on our deposit return scheme, leaving it fatally undermined.

Without approval of the changes that the regulations make, the go-live date would remain 16 August this year, which nobody in the chamber wants to see happen. The regulations change the go-live date to March next year. As I have previously explained, the UK Government’s intervention means that that date, in turn, is no longer possible. I have committed to bring before Parliament further amending regulations in line with parliamentary procedures and timelines to change the date to 1 October 2025, reflecting the decision that the Government was forced to take on 7 June to delay the start of the DRS and align with England.

Although that process is imperfect, it should be noted that options were extremely limited, given the last-minute, unexpected nature of the UK Government’s intervention, which meant that the regulations that Parliament previously passed were no longer deliverable. If the Scottish Government had withdrawn those regulations and laid a new set, it would have meant seeking the agreement of Parliament to an expedited scrutiny process before the summer recess, removing all normal committee and parliamentary scrutiny time, or suggesting that Parliament should be recalled. Neither of those options was felt to be appropriate.

As well as changing the start date, the regulations simplify the scheme for small businesses, in particular. Those changes came from constructive dialogue with businesses. The UK Government has indicated that similar provisions are likely to be made in the English scheme. Although we may need to adjust the regulations again eventually, in order to align with the UK Government once it has decided its scheme, I believe that it is important not to lose the progress that we have made in Scotland through positive, constructive engagement with business.

I clarify that we totally accept that we need to pass the regulations today. However, in the spirit of trying to get us to a better place so that we can have regulations that we can all live with, will the minister meet Opposition spokespeople and those of us who are interested in getting it right to make sure that we can come together to get the right scheme?

We are absolutely committed to getting the right scheme. Last week, I met the minister Rebecca Pow to discuss how we want to move forward collaboratively and collectively. The issue is that the matter is currently with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is developing its scheme.

This week, DEFRA officials have come to Scotland to look at what we have been doing and to understand our plans going forward. We are in a situation in which we are having to wait for the UK Government to define the English scheme before we even have anything to discuss. Through the SSI, our scheme is now completely defined, with only a further amendment to come that will confirm the October 2025 date. I will bring that regulation to Parliament shortly. We are committed to working together going forward. As soon as we have something from DEFRA to discuss, I would be delighted to discuss it with Opposition members so that we can move forward.

We are committed to working to deliver the deposit return scheme in Scotland, given the many positive environmental and economic benefits that it will bring. The title of the scheme depends on what is developed by DEFRA. In the meantime, we are providing businesses with absolute clarity that the deposit return scheme regulations will not apply from August 2023 and that the measures that the Scottish Government developed and agreed with business in recent months will help to form the basis of the development of our new scheme.

The question on the motion will be put at decision time.

The next item of business is consideration of nine Parliamentary Bureau motions. I call George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-09720, on committee duration; S6M-09757, on approval of an SSI; S6M-09758 to S6M-09760, on designation of lead committees; S6M-09787, on approval of an SSI; S6M-09761 and S6M-09790, on committee membership; and S6M-09791, on committee substitutes.

Motions moved,

That the Parliament agrees, further to motion S6M-00393, that the duration of the COVID-19 Recovery Committee be revised from “For the whole session of the Parliament” to “Until Friday 14 July 2023”.

That the Parliament agrees that the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland Local Taxation Chamber and Upper Tribunal for Scotland (Composition and Procedure) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2023 [draft] be approved.

That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the legislative consent memorandum on the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill.

That the Parliament agrees that the Social Justice and Social Security Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill.

That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the legislative consent memorandum on the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill.

That the Parliament agrees that the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (Amendment) Order 2023 [draft] be approved.

That the Parliament agrees that the following changes to committee membership will apply from close of business on Thursday 29 June 2023—

Kate Forbes be appointed to replace Ben Macpherson as a member of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee;

Keith Brown be appointed to replace Alasdair Allan as a member of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee;

John Swinney be appointed to replace Collette Stevenson as a member of the Criminal Justice Committee;

Kevin Stewart be appointed to replace Fiona Hyslop as a member of the Economy and Fair Work Committee;

Ash Regan be appointed to replace Michelle Thomson as a member of the Economy and Fair Work Committee;

Michelle Thomson be appointed to replace Bob Doris as a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee;

Ben Macpherson be appointed to replace Fiona Hyslop as a member of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee;

Kate Forbes be appointed to replace Christine Grahame as a member of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee;

Bob Doris be appointed to replace Gordon MacDonald as a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee;

Christine Grahame be appointed to replace Emma Harper as a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee; and

Ivan McKee be appointed to replace Bob Doris as a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.

That the Parliament agrees that the following changes to committee membership will apply from close of business on Thursday 29 June 2023—

Jamie Halcro Johnston be appointed to replace Douglas Lumsden as a member of the Finance and Public Administration Committee;

Meghan Gallacher be appointed to replace Rachael Hamilton as a member of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee;

Roz McCall be appointed to replace Miles Briggs as a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee;

Pam Gosal be appointed to replace Annie Wells as a member of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee;

Maurice Golden be appointed to replace Alexander Stewart as a member of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee;

Liam Kerr be appointed to replace Stephen Kerr as a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee;

Sharon Dowey be appointed to replace Jamie Greene as a member of the Criminal Justice Committee;

Graham Simpson be appointed to replace Craig Hoy as a member of the Public Audit Committee;

Murdo Fraser be appointed to replace Jamie Halcro Johnston as a member of the Economy and Fair Work Committee;

Brian Whittle be appointed to replace Graham Simpson as a member of the Economy and Fair Work Committee;

Annie Wells be appointed to replace Alexander Stewart as a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee;

Stephen Kerr be appointed to replace Edward Mountain as a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee;

Alexander Stewart be appointed to replace Maurice Golden as a member of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee; and

Annie Wells be appointed to replace Pam Gosal as a member of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee.

That the Parliament agrees that the following changes to committee substitutes will apply from close of business on Thursday 29 June 2023—

Graham Simpson be appointed to replace Murdo Fraser as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee;

Murdo Fraser be appointed to replace Jamie Halcro Johnston as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee;

Alexander Stewart be appointed to replace Maurice Golden as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee;

Oliver Mundell be appointed to replace Sharon Dowey as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee;

Roz McCall be appointed to replace Meghan Gallacher as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee;

Jamie Halcro Johnston be appointed to replace Edward Mountain as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee;

Edward Mountain be appointed to replace Stephen Kerr as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee;

Craig Hoy be appointed to replace Roz McCall as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee; and

Pam Gosal be appointed to replace Graham Simpson as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee.—[George Adam]

The question on the motions will be put at decision time.

I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 11.2.4 of standing orders, that decision time be brought forward to now.

Motion moved,

That, under Rule 11.2.4 of Standing Orders, Decision Time be brought forward to 5.12 pm.—[George Adam]

Motion agreed to.