Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Tuesday, March 26, 2024

Official Report 1062KB pdf

Points of Order

On a point of order, Presiding Officer.

You will be aware that I wrote to you earlier about an exchange that I had with Stephen Kerr in the chamber earlier this afternoon. First, I want to say that the constant barracking of mainly female colleagues by Mr Kerr in the chamber is intolerable and people are, frankly, fed up with it. After another episode of barracking of another female colleague earlier, right after a point of order that Maggie Chapman had made about the same behaviour from Mr Kerr, I said to Mr Kerr that his behaviour and arrogance would lead to him having a very high fall at some point. Obviously, that was meant metaphorically and politically, not literally, but, for the avoidance of doubt, let me be very clear to Mr Kerr on that point.

The truth is that Mr Kerr is complaining about my comment and behaviour rather than reflecting on his own in an attempt to deflect from the numerous and growing complaints about his conduct in this place. We all have a duty to treat each other “with courtesy and respect” and to reflect on our own behaviour, and I will do that. However, I hope that Mr Kerr’s conduct will be tackled, as it cannot be allowed to continue as it is at present.

I thank Ms Robison for her point of order. There were several points of order made earlier today, which I addressed at the time.

It is absolutely imperative that each and every one of us in the chamber adheres to our duty under the code of conduct and that, at all times, we carry out our business “with courtesy and respect”. I am aware constantly of conversations that carry on across the aisles, even when business has not been suspended but is changing from item to item. Those are not opportunities for members to have a disagreeable conversation with a colleague. They are not an opportunity to debate a matter, particularly in a way that can be less than courteous and respectful.

I urge all members to reflect on their duty as elected representatives, with particular regard to the requirement to carry out our business in a way that we are wholly proud of.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance.

One of my colleagues, Stephen Kerr, who has been mentioned already, was today threatened by the Deputy First Minister, who said that he would “fall from a very high place”. That was captured on the audio and is on public record, and my colleague raised it at the time.

That comment is clearly unacceptable for any member to make to another member, especially when we are striving for respectful dialogue in the chamber. It is disturbing that it came from a senior member of the Government—the Deputy First Minister, no less—which makes it all the more alarming.

Rule 7.3.1 of standing orders states:

“Members shall at all times conduct themselves in a courteous and respectful manner”.

I, for one, am concerned that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance has used her position to make such statements to a member in the chamber.

I would be grateful if you could clarify two questions, Presiding Officer. First, what recourse does the member have to elicit an apology from the Deputy First Minister for that threatening conduct? Secondly, should we not hold ourselves to higher account than ordinary citizens? Is it not the case that, if a member of the public had said that to a member of the Parliament, it would be viewed as a security issue and investigated by Police Scotland?

I think that it is probably fair to say that the rule relating to courtesy and respect is the one that I most frequently have to urge members to adhere to from this chair. At this point in the parliamentary session, that simply should not be the case.

We have had a discussion of an incident that took place earlier today. As I said, I addressed the matter at the time, reflecting on what I had heard and seen in the chamber. I am absolutely determined that we should have no future such instances and that, when members come in here, they are all able to focus fully on their duty as representatives of the people of Scotland.