Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, November 22, 2023

Official Report 1110KB pdf

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Point of Order

Good afternoon. The first item of business is—

On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Members will be aware of the news that broke this morning, as announced by Ineos and PetroChina, that they intend to close the oil refinery at Grangemouth by the spring of 2025. Members will also be aware that that would end Scotland’s capability to refine petrol and diesel at scale and increase our reliance on facilities south of the border or, indeed, abroad.

Let us not forget that the Grangemouth plant makes up 4 per cent of the entire Scottish gross domestic product. Thousands of jobs are reliant on the plant, and the entire supply of petrol and diesel—

Mr Kerr, could you please get to the bit that engages the standing orders of the Parliament?

I am coming to that very point, Deputy Presiding Officer, because this is a very important issue—

Mr Kerr, please resume your seat for a second. I appreciate how important the issue is, but I am trying to ensure that the standing orders of this Parliament are respected. A point of order must trigger a standing order of the Parliament. I implore the member to please indicate further to which standing order the member is making the point of order.

I was just coming to that point. Thousands of people’s jobs are reliant on the plant. I am giving context.

Mr Kerr, please resume your seat for a second. With all due respect, I understand very well the context. I am asking the member to indicate specifically what his point of order is.

My understanding of points of order is that the member has a number of minutes to explain what they are seeking guidance on—

Mr Kerr, could you please indicate what you are seeking guidance on?

I am seeking guidance on the fact that we need a ministerial statement on this matter. I am asking you, as the Presiding Officer, and I am somewhat surprised about how my point of order is being dealt with, if I may say so, because—

Mr Kerr, please resume your seat for a second. I will not take any implicit or other criticism of the chair. I understand that the member seems to be seeking a ministerial statement. I am quite happy to address that request. The member will know—

I was coming to that.

If I could perhaps finish my comment. The member will appreciate very well the various ways in which matters can be raised in this Parliament. On the issue of a ministerial statement, I imagine that he would perhaps wish to discuss that matter with his party business manager, so that the party business manager can seek to raise the matter with the Parliamentary Bureau.

On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer.

A further point of order, Mr Kerr—[Interruption.]

It is all right for you all to sigh, but there are literally thousands of jobs—

Mr Kerr, please address the point of order that you now wish to make.

Had I been allowed to make the point of order that I was making—

Members: It was not a point of order.

It was a point of order. I remind members that there are literally thousands of people whose jobs are on the line—

Mr Kerr, please resume your seat for a second.

I—

Mr Kerr, please resume your seat for a second.

Mr Kerr has indicated that he is seeking a ministerial statement. I have indicated to Mr Kerr how that can be pursued. Mr Kerr wishes to raise a further point of order, which I am happy to hear, but I wish to be assured that it is a point of order that engages the standing orders of the Parliament. Thank you.

My simple point, Deputy Presiding Officer, is that my understanding of the standing orders is that I have a couple of minutes to explain the context for the point of order that I am raising. You allowed me very little time to make this important point of order. I repeat that, despite all the muttering from the Scottish National Party benches, this is a very important matter for my constituents, thousands of whose jobs and livelihoods are on the line, as is the whole economy of the area. Yet, I am granted a few seconds to make a point of order.

Mr Kerr, it is now 14:04:37. What is the next point of—

I have tried—

What is the next specific matter pertaining to the standing orders of this Parliament that the member, by pursuit of a point of order, wishes to invoke?

My point of order is as I have expressed it. I am making the point that, under the standing orders of this Parliament, a member is entitled to two or three minutes to explain the point of order—

Well, Mr Kerr, I would point out that we are already—

—and I was not allowed that privilege.

We are already at 14:05. [Interruption.] We are at 14:05. I think that there has been a good—[Interruption.] I think that there has been a good exploration of the issues that the member wishes to raise.

There has not been.

The member’s point about seeking a ministerial statement has been noted, by everybody in the chamber, I am sure—

But not the why.

—but, of course, the way in which the member can best pursue that—

Not the why.

I really would not appreciate the member continuing—

Not the why.

Mr Kerr, please desist from challenging the authority of the chair of this Parliament. Please have the courtesy to do that.

As I was saying—[Interruption.] As I was saying to Mr Kerr, who continues from a sedentary position to challenge the authority of the chair, and who is, in my view, also being extremely rude, the member knows well how a matter can be pursued. That is through his party’s business manager. I suggest that he may wish now to have that conversation.