Plenary, 13 Sep 2001

Meeting date: Thursday, September 13, 2001

Official Report 625KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE

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Secretary of State for Scotland (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he next plans to meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues he intends to discuss. (S1F-1221)

I intend to meet the secretary of state next week, when we will discuss issues of common interest.

Earlier today, we heard from the UK Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs that there would be a sizeable number of British casualties following Tuesday's atrocity in the United States. I know that these are difficult issues and difficult times in which to gather information, but is the First Minister in a position to give us any update on that information and to provide any impression of the number of families in Scotland who might be affected by the tragedy?

I thank John Swinney and David McLetchie for their courtesy in contacting my office to inform us that they would want to discuss issues related to the terrorist attack in America. I thank them also for their speeches yesterday.

This is a difficult and delicate subject, as John Swinney has said, and I shall first give the details of what has been announced at UK level. A hundred British persons who were there at the time are unaccounted for, although the number of casualties is likely to run into several hundreds, given the number of inquiries that have been made to the Metropolitan police's casualty bureau. Although we do not have any precise figures for Scotland, I fear that there will be Scots among the casualties.

In Scotland, we have established the Scottish police information co-ordinating centre to co-ordinate the security and intelligence response. Part of the group's work will be to liaise with forces throughout the UK, including direct liaison with the Metropolitan police's casualty bureau, which is responsible for the identification of UK victims.

I thank the First Minister for his reply. Can he say a bit more about the measures that the Scottish Executive may put in place to assist those families in Scotland who may be bereaved as a result of the tragedy? Will he also give us an impression of what support has been sought from the Scottish Executive by the estimated 20,000 Americans who live in Scotland?

When I met the American consular official yesterday, we discussed what help we could provide. The consulate is dealing with a significant number of inquiries and telephone calls. I therefore put at the disposal of the American consulate our help in administration, in terms of people and telecommunications, should that be required. The justice department is dealing with a range of issues relating to the terrorist atrocity. Jim Wallace, Tom McCabe, Angus MacKay and I are in permanent contact with the department to find out what is happening and what responses are required.

The bureau at Scotland Yard has so far received more than 12,000 calls from concerned families. It will deal with international calls from the United States, the United Kingdom and Europe. In addition, it was announced this morning that if any casualties or victims in the United States have difficulties in relation to personal insurance in bringing their loved ones back to this country, the UK Government has agreed to consider those cases for Government help. We would want to do the same for families in similar circumstances in Scotland. Through our emergency operations and contingency planning, we are seeking to ensure that facilities are available throughout Scotland to help families directly, if necessary, and to assist in the general security alert of which the country is part.

Forgive me, Sir David—this is like a statement, but I am trying to respond to John Swinney's questions.

We also know that there is a heightened security at Scottish airports from the Highlands to the central belt—although it would be wrong for me to go into detail—and emergency planning networks are in place. Everything possible is being done. However, I say to colleagues, including David McLetchie and John Swinney, that if they can suggest anything further that we could do, we would be delighted to consider it.

I am sure that the First Minister's announcement on personal insurance will be warmly welcomed by those who are affected by this tragedy.

It is a matter of regret and sadness that our community has been touched by these issues already, in the form of the Lockerbie bombing in the late 1980s. Is the First Minister able to tell Parliament whether any of the lessons that were learned then, in terms of the treatment and support of the local community and individuals, have been offered to the United States authorities as a contribution from Scotland to help the US come to terms with this awful tragedy?

Today I spoke to Baroness Amos at the Foreign Office and I have just finished a telephone conversation with the Prime Minister, in which I acknowledged the Scottish Parliament's solidarity with him on behalf of Scotland. I have every reason to think that the lessons that were learned from Lockerbie and the expertise of our intelligence network and our armed forces will be made available to the United States if that is required. Clearly, these are matters of enormous sensitivity, but suffice it to say that the existence of the Cabinet Office briefing room—COBRA—in Whitehall and the involvement of the Prime Minister, who has shown his solidarity with the United States, mean that the answer to John Swinney's question is that everything possible will be done.

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues he will raise. (S1F-1223)

I last met the Prime Minister on 1 September.

At their next meeting, will the First Minister convey to the Prime Minister how much we welcome his resolute and unequivocal support for President Bush and the American people in response to Tuesday's appalling terrorist attacks and that that support extends across Scotland's communities, including Scotland's Muslim community, which is appalled that its faith has been hijacked and abused by the terrorists who are suspected of these atrocities?

I am pleased to acknowledge David McLetchie's support for the resolute action that has been detailed by our Prime Minister.

It is encouraging that members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation have also responded positively. Clearly, these matters are for NATO and for the United Kingdom Government. That point is well made.

I will touch sensitively on the point that David McLetchie makes. Unusually, I will quote from a national tabloid that addressed that issue. It is right that there should be solidarity between the Muslim community and the other communities in Scotland in relation to the terrorist activity. The editorial said that Islam is a religion of peace and discipline and continued:

"The fanatics distort the words of their holy book, the Koran, to justify their bloody outrages and their cruel, oppressive regimes … the Muslims in Britain"—

and I will add to that the Muslims in Scotland—

"love this country and they respect democracy."

I am sure that all of us in the chamber echo that view. All of us—Muslim Scots, Scots of other religions and Scots who, although they profess no established religion, feel for other human beings—should unite in our condemnation of this barbarous act.

We must renew our collective pledge, which was clear from the dignity of the proceedings in the chamber yesterday, that democrats across the world are united in their refusal to bow to the evil men of terror.

I am sure that the First Minister's words will be of great encouragement to people throughout Scotland's communities.

Does the First Minister agree that the national unity of purpose that he and the Prime Minister have exemplified in recent days needs to be matched by an international unity of purpose? When he meets the Prime Minister, will he convey to him our support for NATO's welcome decision to treat the attacks on the United States as attacks on all of us? That is an important step towards achieving that international unity of purpose and resolve.

The action that has been taken by NATO to invoke article 5 of the north Atlantic treaty to construe the act against America as an act against all NATO members speaks volumes about the deep concern that people in NATO countries have about what has happened. The Parliament has shown its concern about what is happening internationally. We await with apprehension the finding of victims in the ruins of the Pentagon and the World Trade Centre.

Suffice it to say that, with the support of the Parliament, we will provide all the help that we can in the hope that we can eventually erase some of the bad memories of Tuesday's traumatic event. Scotland will not be found wanting in the areas in which we are involved. I hope that the consensus in the Parliament will continue.

Does the First Minister agree that there is unreserved condemnation from all democrats in the world for the terrorist atrocity that was visited on America on Tuesday, but that the murder in retaliation of any other innocent human beings will not be a solution to the war on terrorism?

The comments that were made in the chamber yesterday, the comments that have been made today and the comments that have been made internationally show that there is deep outrage at what has happened. The world wants to be united against terrorism. Everyone is of a mind in saying that we must focus on the terrorists and those who harbour them. That is the collective view of people who love democracy and freedom. That is the way in which we should proceed.

Does the First Minister agree that, among all the horrific reports that we have received from America over the past couple of days, there is at least one heartwarming story? It is about Dr Hannay from Scotland, who was on holiday in America and who immediately made himself available to treat the injured. Does the First Minister also agree that that simple act of humanity is in complete contrast to the murderous actions of the terrorists?

I am pleased to be associated with the efforts of Dr Hannay in the United States. We have always had an international reputation for excellence. We have always exported the very best to the world. We applaud the efforts that have been made in the circumstances.

As an act of solidarity, I say that it is chilling to see so many ordinary people killed, but it is equally chilling to see so many emergency workers—medics, firemen, police—killed in the outrage. Our thoughts are with all the emergency services in the USA. We are pleased to associate ourselves with them.

On Duncan McNeil's last comments, tomorrow at 11 o'clock there will be a chance for us to pay our respects. There are to be three minutes of silence so that we can continue to pay our respects to the victims of the tragedy. That applies mainly to Government buildings, Government agencies and public buildings, but I like to think that the message from the Parliament is for every Scot, no matter what they are doing, to pay their respects in the most time-honoured way—silence and solidarity.

I add that that will apply at the Equal Opportunities Committee event that is being held in the chamber tomorrow.

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Housing (Scotland) Act 2001

It feels deeply inappropriate to continue with my question after the seriousness of the subject that we have just been discussing, but the question has been called, so I will go on.

To ask the First Minister what progress is being made in implementing the provisions of the Housing (Scotland) Act 2001. (S1F-1231)

I say to Cathie Craigie that housing is a serious subject for the future of Scotland.

The Housing (Scotland) Act 2001 will be implemented progressively over the next two years, starting within the next month or so. We are making good progress with preparations for implementation. For example, we expect the new executive agency—communities Scotland—to be up and running from 1 November.

However, implementation is not just for the Executive. Local authorities, registered social landlords, tenants and voluntary organisations all have an important role to play in ensuring that we deliver real improvements to Scotland's housing.

I appreciate the volume of work that is being undertaken by housing providers, the voluntary sector and others involved in implementing the act. Will the First Minister ensure that adequate funding is available for landlords to implement properly the parts of the act that relate to tenant participation? Can he ensure that there is enough funding to be able to implement all those provisions?

I reassure Cathie Craigie on two points. First, the Parliament and the Executive have a huge commitment to tenant participation. That will not diminish. Secondly, for that to work effectively, appropriate resources have to be made available. That will happen.

Is the First Minister aware of parliamentary answer S1W-16469, which confirms that the Scottish Executive is currently considering secondary legislation to correct anomalies in the Housing (Scotland) Act 2001? Does he agree that a reliance on secondary legislation to rush through primary legislation creates bad practice and bad law?

With my usual courtesy and honesty, I have to say no. I will be happy to consider the matters raised by Linda Fabiani.

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Asylum Seekers (Minister for Social Justice)

To ask the First Minister what the remit of the Minister for Social Justice will be in relation to asylum seekers. (S1F-1228)

The Minister for Social Justice will deal with the co-ordination of all devolved matters arising from the arrival of asylum seekers in Scotland. Those relate particularly to health, education, social work and the police. She will also deal with refugee integration, where the issues are fully devolved, and will chair the proposed new Scottish refugee integration forum.

The SNP welcomes the decision to give responsibility for asylum seekers to the Minister for Social Justice, even if the remit is constrained by the limited powers that have been devolved. Does the First Minister agree that asylum seekers could be dealt with more humanely and with greater sensitivity if the Executive had full responsibility for their plight? Will the First Minister inform the chamber of the Executive's views on the demeaning voucher system, incarceration of asylum seekers in the detention centre at Dungavel and the flawed dispersal scheme?

I hope that everyone who deals with asylum seekers will be humane and sensitive. It is not a matter of extending powers and expecting that to solve all those problems. We must acknowledge that 72 members go from Scotland to the UK Parliament. They deal with reserved matters. That is right and appropriate. However, there are also substantial devolved responsibilities in which Jackie Baillie and members of other departments will be heavily involved. That is an effective and proper balance.

As I said a week ago, we are reviewing the impact of asylum legislation on Scotland, 18 months after its implementation. We are preparing a Cabinet report on devolved services and innovations. We are looking closely at contributing to the dispersal and reviewing its effectiveness. We are also considering the voucher system with a view to making representations on it.

We are doing a great deal, but I should disabuse people of the notion that having more powers in Edinburgh will solve all the problems in Sighthill or any other place in Scotland.

Will the First Minister join me in welcoming the opportunity the measure provides for real partnership between Westminster, the Scottish Parliament and local authorities in supporting the asylum seekers and refugees within our communities? Will he acknowledge the excellent work that is being done within our communities, despite some of the problems that have been faced by the local communities across Glasgow in which there are asylum seekers and refugees?

When the First Minister and his ministerial colleagues visit Glasgow, as part of their work in the area, will they take the opportunity to meet groups such as the one that has been established in my constituency of Glasgow Pollok? That would enable them to find out how positive work can be done inside local communities to make those communities welcoming and friendly places for our new visitors to come to.

I am happy to agree that partnership is the key. There is a strong partnership between the Executive, the Parliament and Westminster. A lot of excellent work is being done—that is often lost in the general debate that ensues around such a sensitive issue. The visit that we had planned for this week is being rescheduled for next week. We intend to do what Johann Lamont suggests—to meet people from all parts of the communities involved, to identify how best we can listen to them and to use that to improve our services.

Will the First Minister tell us whether the minister in charge of the affairs of asylum seekers will have the powers and the authority to help local authorities to provide facilities that are needed not just by the asylum seekers, but by the whole community, including its longer-standing residents, some of whom have problems that they feel are not being addressed? Will Jackie Baillie be able to address those problems as well as those of the asylum seekers?

The answer is yes. One of the reasons for allocating the responsibilities to the Minister for Social Justice is to cope with that point. We need a balance in every community between the hosts and people who are coming in as asylum seekers. Jackie Baillie's role is pivotal, because Westminster has substantial reserved powers, local councils have substantial local responsibilities and the Executive not only can provide help, but can make sure that the system works.

That concludes First Minister's question time. I extend my usual apology to those whom I was unable to call.