Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Meeting date: Tuesday, December 7, 2021

Business Motion

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-02457, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out changes to business this week.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revision to the programme of business for Thursday 9 December 2021—

after

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs and Islands

insert

followed by Ministerial Statement: Supporting Culture in Scotland

delete

4.25 pm Decision Time

insert

5.00 pm Decision Time—[George Adam]

The Presiding Officer

I call Neil Bibby to speak to and move amendment S6M-02457.1.

17:04

Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)

My amendment to the business motion will extend business on Thursday by 30 minutes, with decision time being at 5.30 pm. There is no parliamentary event more important than the budget, and there has been no year in which the budget has been more important than this year. The people of Scotland, whom we represent, need the budget to be one for real recovery—a budget that sets Scotland on a path to a brighter and better 2022 and that helps to make the lives of the people we represent better. I sincerely hope that it can do so.

We, in the Scottish Labour Party, are determined to play our part in scrutinising Government and in asking questions on behalf of our communities. The Government is perfectly entitled to bring forward a ministerial statement on supporting culture in Scotland on Thursday. I do not know what will be in the statement, but I do know that it is not one of the number of statements that the Opposition has requested.

However, one thing is clear: we must also have additional time in Parliament for more questions on the budget. The Labour Party is currently permitted to ask only five questions in scrutinising the budget. The governing parties, the Scottish National Party and the Greens, will combine to have 15. That may be good enough for them, but we have many more than five questions to ask on behalf of our constituents—on jobs, hospitals, schools, buses, housing, the environment, our high streets and many more issues.

If the Scottish Government does not agree, that begs the question: what does it have to fear from scrutiny? The budget needs to be one for real recovery and jobs, and we need to do our job. If that means staying an extra half an hour on Thursday to do it, so be it. Scottish Labour is calling on Parliament to back our amendment. We do so in the hope that the budget can truly be made to kick-start recovery and make a difference for the people of Scotland.

I move amendment S6M-02457.1, to leave out “5.00 pm Decision Time” and insert:

“5.30 pm Decision Time”.

17:06

Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)

I rise to speak against the business motion and in support of the amendment. As you know, Presiding Officer, I have been in touch with members of the Parliamentary Bureau over the past few weeks regarding the budget statement on Thursday. Initially, the Government planned that the budget statement would last for one hour: 20 minutes for the statement and only 40 minutes for questions. It is true that the time for the statement was extended from 60 minutes to 90 minutes, but that merely brought it into line with the past few years’ budget statements and was therefore not an extension or any kind of a compromise at all.

As we have heard, there is now to be a statement on culture on Thursday. I am sure that, as he did at the bureau meeting, Mr Adam, the Minister for Parliamentary Business, is about to take umbrage and pretend that my objection is an insult to culture. That is such nonsense—indeed, drivel. The real insult to culture is that it is being used in such a shoddy way, shoehorned in when it was suggested that the time in hand after the budget could be used to provide more MSPs with the opportunity to ask a question. The inescapable conclusion from all the programming shenanigans is that the prime reason why that statement has been added at the last minute is to protect Ms Forbes from answering questions.

I have confidence that the cabinet secretary would be up to answering back-bench questions. Why does Mr Adam not? He refused my reasonable suggestion in the bureau to move the culture statement to next Tuesday, when it would not be overshadowed by the budget. That stands in stark contrast to Mr Adam’s failure to allocate time for a statement on the circular economy during the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP26—which he maintained at the time would be overshadowed by the international event. Where is that concern now? This is about protecting ministers from the scrutiny of the Scottish Parliament—[Interruption.] What it shows, more than anything else, is a culture of contempt in the Scottish Government for the openness and oversight that the Scottish Parliament brings.

It seems that the Government has no appetite for accountability. It would rather deflect and obscure what is going on in the public finances and any other area of public policy. More time is needed for more questions and discussion on the budget. How can it ever be a bad thing in the Scottish Parliament to ask questions of the Executive? There is a growing danger that, the more the Scottish Government tramples over the Scottish Parliament’s business schedule, the more accustomed to that we all become—[Interruption.] Back benchers deserve to have their questions answered. The desires and concerns of our constituents—

The Presiding Officer

Excuse me, Mr Kerr. Can we please hear Mr Kerr, colleagues? Thank you.

Stephen Kerr

Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is the job of the Scottish Parliament to hold the Scottish Government to account. The people of Scotland deserve no less. I therefore urge members to reject the business programme motion in favour of the amended motion.

The Presiding Officer

I call George Adam to respond on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau.

17:09

The Minister for Parliamentary Business (George Adam)

I have known Kate Forbes for many years, and she does not need to hide behind me.

According to Stephen Kerr, it is this big daft boy fae Feegie who seems to be the one controlling the whole Scottish Parliament, as opposed to us working together in the bureau to create the business of the Parliament. However, after the pantomime that we have just seen, it is time to talk about the facts.

The item of business on the Scottish Government’s budget statement this Thursday is scheduled for 95 minutes, which allows for 65 minutes of questioning. It is not my fault, and I cannot do anything about the fact, that the Conservatives are unable to ask any questions that will give Kate Forbes difficulty—that is not my problem.

The time allowed is an increase on the average over the past four years of 58 minutes, which Stephen Kerr pointed out to me in an email last week. The 95 minutes for a statement and questions is in addition to a stage 1 debate that is due to take place at the end of January, a stage 2 debate in committee at the beginning of February and a stage 3 debate in mid-February. I assure members that adequate time will be given to the budget and that no limitation of scrutiny is being proposed by anyone here.

Thursday’s proposed business includes a statement on supporting culture in Scotland, because culture is a key economic sector. In 2019, the creative industries contributed around £4.5 billion to the economy and employed more than 127,000 people. I heard at the bureau meeting earlier today—this was hinted at in the chamber, too—that the proposed business was buffering in some way and that we were using culture to use up parliamentary time. That suggestion is an absolute disgrace, because the culture industry is extremely important to Scotland and our economy. After the 18 to 20 months that we have had, it is important that we discuss what is happening in culture now and what we are doing for the future.

The pandemic has hit the culture sector harder than almost any other sector, and it continues to face challenging conditions. We continue to hear that businesses are struggling for survival, and it is essential that we allow parliamentary time to consider how best we can support this vital sector. It is down to this Parliament to discuss business that involves the people of Scotland and not some flight of fantasy of the Conservative Party.

The Presiding Officer

The question is, that amendment S6M-02457.1, in the name of Neil Bibby, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

The Presiding Officer

There will be a division.

There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.

17:13 Meeting suspended.

17:17 On resuming—

The Presiding Officer

We move to the vote on amendment S6M-02457.1, in the name of Neil Bibby. Members should cast their votes now.

For

Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Cameron, Donald (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lockhart, Dean (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)

Against

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)

The Presiding Officer

The result of the division on amendment S6M-02457.1 is: For 52, Against 67, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

The Presiding Officer

The next question is, that motion S6M-02457, in the name of George Adam, setting out a business programme, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

The Presiding Officer

There will be a division.

The vote is now closed.

Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to connect. I wish to vote no.

The Presiding Officer

Thank you, Ms Baker. We will ensure that that is recorded.

Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My device seems to have frozen. I would have voted no.

The Presiding Officer

Thank you, Mr Hoy. We will ensure that that is recorded.

For

Against

The Presiding Officer

The result of the division on motion S6M-02457, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a revision to the business programme, is: For 67, Against 52, Abstentions 0.

Motion agreed to,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revision to the programme of business for Thursday 9 December 2021—

after

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs and Islands

insert

followed by Ministerial Statement: Supporting Culture in Scotland

delete

4.25 pm Decision Time

insert

5.00 pm Decision Time

Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill

Decision Time

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Meeting date: Tuesday, December 7, 2021

Contents

Business Motion