Justice Committee

Meeting date: Tuesday, December 18, 2018

Official Report 793KB pdf

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British Transport Police in Scotland (Proposed Integration into Police Scotland)

Agenda item 5 is consideration of an update from the Scottish Government in relation to the proposed integration of British Transport Police into Police Scotland. I refer members to paper 6, which is a private paper. Do members have any comments?

Are we not getting the cabinet secretary to come to the committee?

No. We agreed to get a written update from him.

Okay. So we are just noting the letter and the cover note.

That is right.

Thank you. That is duly noted.

It is not immediately clear whether the Government is looking at a specific option or what the timetable is for implementing what it is now suggesting. However, I think that the Government’s objective is still full integration at some point. Perhaps we should get clarification on exactly where we are in the process and where the Government sees us going. We could also ask other stakeholders—BTP, the BTP Authority and the BTP Federation—to comment on where we are now and what they expect in terms of timescales, as that might put some meat on the bones.

I echo the convener’s point about clarity on timescales. Given that concern has also been expressed about what the programme has cost up to now, it might be useful to request an update on that, too.

12:15  

The points that Daniel Johnson has made are exactly right, but I want to put something else out there, as it is the question that I would have put to the cabinet secretary.

The cabinet secretary says that, if a satisfactory arrangement is arrived at in the medium term, full integration might not be necessary, and he makes it absolutely clear that he is concerned—and rightly so—about uncertainty for the officers and the long-term impact of that. However, his letter still says that, regardless of what happens in the medium term, the Government is still going for merger in the long term. I genuinely do not understand that position. The cabinet secretary is a smart guy—like anyone else, he will get this. However, he seems to be saying, “It doesn’t matter if we’re successful in the medium term—we’re still going to do this.”

That is why the question of timescales is crucial.

It is important to point out that the cabinet secretary has realised that stakeholders have issues with the proposal and that he is asking them to work with him on an interim solution. However, the ultimate objective is still full integration. I think that, in the letter, he is taking steps to clarify where we are with the process, and what he has set out is sensible and practical.

Many valid points have been made. I am quite frustrated about the process, although I think that my frustration is for different reasons than those of other people.

However, one thing that I hope we can unite over is the fact that we have a police service operating in Scotland with all the powers of the police service—powers of stop and search, powers of arrest, powers of surveillance, powers to execute warrants and so on—but this Parliament has no power of scrutiny over it. That is a major deficiency that we need to consider. However, I agree that it would be useful to get updates.

Does the committee agree to write to the stakeholders and the Government to seek information on the points that have been raised?

Members indicated agreement.