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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 July 2025
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Displaying 1555 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Justice Services

Meeting date: 8 February 2022

Rona Mackay

I am pleased to speak in this debate, which is being held at a time when Scotland’s justice system is on the verge of some exciting and transformational changes. Of course there will be disagreements across the chamber on certain aspects of those changes and on policy detail, but it cannot be disputed that the Scottish Government and the judiciary know that change must come in order to make our legal system fit for purpose in today’s changing world. We know that centuries-old traditional practice can make the wheels of justice move slowly in adapting to change, but it must happen if we are to keep pace with reality and the basic human right of access to a fair and rehabilitative justice system.

The Government’s motion states that we are transforming the justice system

“to ensure that services are person centred and trauma informed”.

As co-convener of the cross-party group on the prevention and healing of adverse childhood experiences, I am delighted by that progressive trajectory. We are also focusing on early intervention and improving outcomes, which will make our communities safer and improve the quality of life for so many people. More than half of the young people in the United Kingdom have experienced ACEs, which all too often lead to offending and incarceration.

As convener of the cross-party group on women, families and justice and the cross-party group on men’s violence against women and children, I know that urgent action is needed to improve the experiences of women and children and to ensure that the voices of victims and survivors are heard and acted upon. Gender inequality, child poverty, mental ill health and addictions are all being addressed within the Scottish Government’s new vision. We know that many women who are in prison for low-grade offences have suffered domestic abuse or head injuries, or have mental health or addiction problems. Prison is no place for them. It wrecks families and exacerbates the existing issues that led the women there in the first place. Early intervention and holistic support are the only ways to alleviate that.

Equally, prison is no place for children and young people. I am pleased that the Government recognises that and will take steps to stop young people being held in adult prisons. The balance must be shifted to ensure that custody is used only when no alternative is appropriate and that greater use is made of alternative options in communities.

Violence against women is the scourge of society, not just in Scotland or the UK, but globally. During the Criminal Justice Committee’s private evidence sessions with victims of domestic abuse and sexual offences, we heard moving and disturbing accounts of women’s journeys through the justice system.

Last year’s review by the Lord Justice Clerk, Lady Dorrian, highlighted a number of areas where improvements should be made, and I am pleased that the Scottish Government has committed to giving serious consideration to all the recommendations, including the introduction of specialist courts and allowing victims to pre-record their evidence.

In the Scottish budget, £4 million has been dedicated for victims services, measures to tackle violence against women and girls, and support for the justice system to respond to victims’ needs. I do not disagree with Jamie Greene that victims’ voices need to be heard, but I believe that the measures that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans has outlined in the vision will enable that to happen.

Let us be clear about the direction that we are going in. In the first 100 days after winning the election, the Scottish Government directed £5 million of new funding to rape crisis centres and domestic abuse services in order to help to cut waiting lists. There is also a programme for government pledge to invest more than £100 million over the next three years to support front-line services and focus on the prevention of violence against women and girls from school onward.

We have launched a public consultation on the not proven verdict, and I await the findings with keen interest. My long-held personal view is that the not proven verdict should be scrapped for crimes of sexual violence in the first instance. I believe that it is having a detrimental impact on convictions. I also believe that the requirement for corroboration is largely to blame for the poor level of convictions in rape trials. Almost one quarter of trials for rape or attempted rape result in a not proven verdict. Only 43 per cent of rape or attempted rape trials result in a conviction, in comparison with an overall conviction rate of 88 per cent. Recent high-profile cases of victims being denied justice in a criminal court and having to go down the civil route exemplify why the system needs changing.

The overall crime rate is down 46 per cent since 2008, and the 2022-23 budget provides a total investment of more than £3.1 billion in strengthening and reforming Scotland’s criminal justice system. Our new vision puts victims at the heart of the justice system, and I am pleased that, with the move to alternative sentencing, there is increased investment of £47.2 million for community justice, which is a crucial part of that transformation.

With the exception of serious offenders—from whom the public must be kept safe—prison simply does not work. No good can come of locking up people who have lost their way in life, often through adverse experiences. We must look towards a humane and rehabilitative system of justice, and I believe that, finally, we are on the right track for that with our new vision for justice.

16:06  

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Justice Services

Meeting date: 8 February 2022

Rona Mackay

Will the member take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

General Question Time

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Rona Mackay

The pandemic can be used as an impetus to change the dynamic of work for the better. What work is the Scottish Government undertaking to ensure that workers’ voices and rights are at the heart of any upcoming four-day week trials in Scotland?

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

General Question Time

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Rona Mackay

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plans to introduce trials for a four-day working week. (S6O-00717)

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

General Question Time

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Rona Mackay

To ask the Scottish Government when it last met NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. (S6O-00689)

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

General Question Time

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Rona Mackay

A registered blind constituent asked me what lateral flow test help is available for visually impaired people. Are the health board and the Scottish Government aware of the difficulties that people with that disability encounter? What help is available to them?

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Adverse Childhood Experiences

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Rona Mackay

I thank all members who supported my motion on the WAVE Trust’s 70/30 campaign to end adverse childhood experiences by 2030.

Before I was elected, I was a children’s hearings panel member in Glasgow East, and I found the work enormously rewarding. At every hearing, we saw a child, or sometimes just the parents or guardians of a child, who needed help or an intervention. Often, we saw or considered the case of a child who had been caught in the system for years—caught in an endless cycle of supervision orders, neglect or offending behaviour. That child was typical of a youngster who had suffered a catalogue of adverse childhood experiences throughout their life.

Everyone who is in the chamber or who is listening to the debate will appreciate that ACEs and their often devastating consequences are now well known. They are no respecter of background. A young person from an affluent home can experience ACEs just as one from a less privileged home can. A well-off parent can neglect or abuse their child in the same way as a poorer parent. However, we do know that poverty is an overwhelmingly acute driver of ACEs and is the root cause of so many damaging issues for young people. Poverty can lead to hopelessness, parental addiction that often leads to neglect, the lack of a positive role model, a chaotic lifestyle and so much more.

Children do not need money to stay on the right path, but they do need attachment, stability and love to feel secure and happy. ACEs can lead to a lifetime of trouble, low expectations, dependency, poor health and insecurity.

The WAVE Trust is a United Kingdom and Ireland-wide network of individuals, organisations and elected representatives. Led by chief executive officer George Hosking and his team, it also acts as the secretariat of the cross-party group of which I am the convener. The WAVE Trust is dedicated and passionate about achieving the ambitious goal of a 70 per cent reduction in ACEs by 2030.

At least half of the children in the UK will suffer ACEs during their childhood. To achieve the campaign’s goal, it is essential that decision makers and those who hold the purse strings have the right policies and take the right actions. In 2015, Professor Sir Harry Burns, the former chief medical officer of Scotland, said:

“I do not view 70/30 as either wishful thinking or an unachievable goal. On the contrary, reducing child maltreatment by 70% in the next fifteen years is the minimum acceptable outcome in responding to this unacceptable (and profoundly costly) harm to our youngest children.”

The cross-party group that I convene is for the prevention and healing of ACEs, and the word “healing” in the title is particularly important. ACEs can be healed with early intervention, attachment, and a holistic approach. For example, instead of saying to a troubled child, “What is wrong with you?” we should say, “What happened to you?”

We know so much more about the cause and effect of ACEs today, largely because of a group of dedicated health professionals. One of those is research scientist Dr Suzanne Zeedyk, who is a passionate advocate of attachment in early years. Dr Zeedyk’s groundbreaking and on-going work has been pivotal to our understanding of ACEs and attachment.

I would also like to mention Pauline Scott, an amazing early years practitioner in my constituency; the late Tina Hendry; Julie Day; lawyers Melissa Rutherford and Ian Smith; and many more people who are adding to our understanding and contributing so much to eliminating ACEs, day in and day out.

I was proud to host an event in Parliament in, I think, 2018 to screen the groundbreaking film documentary “Resilience”, which features the work of pioneering Californian paediatrician Dr Nadine Burke Harris. I whole-heartedly recommend that everyone should watch that inspirational film. Dr Burke Harris examines the science around childhood adversity and toxic stress, revealing the physical changes that happen in the brain when traumatic events occur. She also reveals how we can disrupt the destructive cycle through interventions that retrain the brain and body, foster resilience and help children, families and adults to live healthier, happier lives.

Since I was elected in 2016, much progress has been made on ACEs, not least in public awareness. We are now working towards having a trauma-informed judiciary and trauma-informed law practices, educators and police. In fact, most public service practitioners now understand ACEs and how important being trauma informed is. Indeed, today sees the introduction of sentencing guidelines for young people that mean that trauma will now be formally considered by the judge, which is a huge step forward.

The Scottish Government is also committed to introducing a bairn’s hoose, which is based on the barnahus holistic care system for children in the justice system that has been so successful in Scandinavia. We doubled the child payment and introduced the baby box, the tackling child poverty delivery plan and the Scottish ACEs hub, which aims to encourage action in sectors across Scotland. Those measures are important because we must tackle one of the key drivers of ACEs—poverty—to fight the problem at its root cause.

We must take responsibility for that as legislators. In my motion, I state that 122 MSPs and 513 MPs have signed the WAVE Trust 70/30 campaign pledge. That is a great figure, but we need everyone to sign up. I urge members who have not done so to contact the WAVE Trust directly or email me to say that they want to sign. It is incumbent on all of us to reset the future for disadvantaged children and families to give them a chance of a happier, healthier life. I ask that we work together to bring that about. We have the power, so let us use it to create a fairer, more equal society in which no young person has to grow up blighted by ACEs.

I thank all members who are taking part in the debate and I look forward to everyone’s contribution.

17:21  

Criminal Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 January 2022

Rona Mackay

I disagree with my colleague Jamie Greene—I am in favour of keeping the petition open. As the convener has said, this is a long-running petition not just from the previous session but, indeed, before that. Due to its unique nature, it would be wrong of us to close it when there are still conclusions to be reached. I see no harm in keeping it open. The issues have clearly not been resolved and we owe it to the campaign group and the families involved to keep it open. I do not want it to be closed at this stage.

Criminal Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 26 January 2022

Rona Mackay

Notwithstanding what Russell Findlay has said, there has been progress—it was in the SNP Government’s manifesto to do this. On that basis, we should not keep the petition open. We should follow up with a letter to find out timescales and when the register is likely to be brought in. That is my view. It has been a long-running issue, but it has reached a conclusion. We just need to find out when it is going to happen.

10:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Report (Scottish Government Response)

Meeting date: 19 January 2022

Rona Mackay

I agree with Pauline McNeill on violence against women and girls. I would like more cross-cutting work on that between committees, because it is a huge subject that we need to keep pursuing and tackling head-on. I will not repeat all of Pauline McNeill’s comments, but I agree with all of them.

On fatal accident inquiries, clearly there have been and are serious issues, and families have concerns. However, the cabinet secretary’s response was that the Government is taking note of the recent report of the deaths in custody review and that he has made an extensive statement in the chamber about the issue. Obviously, this is up to you, convener, but, to acknowledge the seriousness, perhaps we could send a letter to drill down a wee bit further on that issue. The fact that the excellent and all-encompassing report on deaths in custody is being considered is a good thing, but we probably need a bit more reassurance on that.

Russell Findlay talked about the Scottish Drug Deaths Taskforce. I completely disagree with him that there is any point in our going over again the issue of the two members who left the task force. That has all been made public, so I see no merit in our drilling back into it. Certainly, it is fine to acknowledge the work that they have been involved in, but I do not see that going over the issue again would move us forward in any way, and I am not sure that there is a great deal of public interest in that. I think that what the public want now is for us to move on and get things done.