Chamber and committees

Yes.

One of the biggest challenges is about how we are going to fund the just transition and all the steps that we have to take to get to net zero. As the member said, many of the figures for different policy areas and the global figures are eye watering.

At the United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties 26, in Glasgow, there were clear signals that there are enormous amounts of private sector finance available around the world, so the Scottish Government is taking steps to try and attract that for investment in Scotland.

One man who was standing behind me in the coffee queue at COP26 was boasting to his colleague that he had $2 billion available to invest. I regret not getting his business card and following that up. At COP26, there was a lot of talk about the amount of private sector finance that is available.

The UK Government has its own green finance strategy, and the Scottish Government has submitted to that throughout the consultation period. However, we are concerned about the pace at which the UK Government is moving; the matter is urgent, so we need more pace from the UK Government. We do not need that only on areas such as carbon capture and storage, and giving the go-ahead to the Acorn project, which would create an enormous amount of wealth in the Scottish economy and bring in private finance; we also need quick action on the green finance initiative that the UK Government is looking at.

On the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government budgets, we are all familiar with the pressures on public finance at the moment, so not only do we face massive challenges in achieving net zero, but we are trying to do so when public budgets are under huge pressure and there is a cost of living crisis. There is also an inflation dimension.

The Scottish Government does not have the borrowing power that is required to finance some of the major projects, so we need the UK Government to step in wherever it can. For instance, we have challenged it to match the Scottish Government’s £500 million just transition fund over 10 years for north-east Scotland and Moray. We would like a UK Government contribution to that. The green jobs task force that the UK had a year or two back suggested that finance is required from the UK Government, but it has not been forthcoming with that finance. There is a big role for the UK to play.

As I said earlier, the potential of hydrogen is enormous for the Scottish economy, and it has a role to play in decarbonising our country. I have spoken to people who think that, if we play our cards right, Scotland could be one of the top three countries in the world in terms of having a decarbonised economy. I hope that that is true, because we have a wealth of resources that could make that happen. However, there are, of course, massive challenges and costs involved in getting there.

The Scottish Government will publish its hydrogen policy in the next few weeks. Clearly, that will give the committee an outline of the direction of travel in relation to realising the potential of hydrogen for Scotland domestically and in terms of export. The initial assessment says that up to 300,000 jobs could be involved. Obviously, the number could go from several tens of thousands up to that level; we will learn over the next few years what the potential is.

With regard to the policies that must be put in place, we have to ensure that people are upskilled and retrained to deal with hydrogen. A lot of work is going on in Scotland in that regard, including in the private sector, where work is being done on the commercial opportunities relating to hydrogen. A month or two ago, I received a presentation from SGN, which is doing some incredible things to investigate and explore what has to be done to re-engineer the infrastructure to take hydrogen, and what that would mean for supply chains, skills and so on.

The Minister for Business, Trade, Tourism and Enterprise, Ivan McKee, spends a lot of time on that issue, and, of course, the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero, Energy and Transport, Michael Matheson, is just back from Japan and Korea, where he spoke to a lot of large businesses that might invest in Scotland. Ministers are doing their best to engage with developing technologies and are taking expert advice. We are publishing relevant policies. As I said, the hydrogen policy will be published in the next few weeks. It will take into account the latest research and information on technologies.

We face a challenge, but we will work with the enterprise companies on the issue. Scotland also has a prestigious university research sector that is helping us.

Thank you for the feedback about what is happening in your constituency. That is an important point to raise.

I know that Patrick Harvie is doing some work on the measures and obstacles that have to be addressed to decarbonise home heating. I am happy to pass on your comments for him to respond either to the committee or directly to you, Mr Beattie. In any case, you have highlighted just one example of the changes that we have to consider as we move forward.

I am, as well. If you go on to Twitter or any other social media, you will see people ruling out certain uses of hydrogen and saying where it should be used. There is a big debate about where it could best be used.

I am confident that we will make progress in that regard. There is a lot of work to do with the college and university sector, and that work is under way. I was very encouraged by the Fraser of Allander Institute’s report “International Scotland”, which was published in November. I was at the first event that was held on the report to talk about the net zero aspect of it. The report says that Scotland is further ahead than the UK in relation to green education courses, so there are good signs that show that our system is gearing up, but there is a long way to go.

Employers are looking for people, and they tell me that, when young people are looking for work and applying for jobs, they ask them what they are doing to tackle climate change. Employers are waking up to the issue. That is a sign that our young people want to go into the right sectors to play a role in decarbonising Scotland and tackling climate change.

I hope that all those things will come together. I hope that young people will want those jobs, that they will get those jobs and that we will be able to train people for those jobs.

Yes.

The Climate Change Committee’s report is a clear signal of the urgent need for transformation across our economy and society in order to achieve our targets. There are strong messages in the report for the Scottish Government on the pace that is required to achieve our targets. There are also comments in there on the role of the just transition and pointers towards the progress that we are making in that area. For instance, it highlights the role of skills in meeting our net zero ambitions for energy, transport, construction, manufacturing and so on. The report recognises that there has been good progress on the funds that we have brought forward, such as the green jobs fund, the just transition fund, which I mentioned in my opening remarks, and the national transition training fund, which has been in place for some time.

Your question about how we will take those strong messages into account in the formation of our just transition plans is a good one, because we will have to take those into account. We are being told that we have to go further faster, but that has an impact on the just transition debate, because it means that a radical transformation of the economy in the years ahead has to happen to achieve our targets.

Next year, we will outline our plans for construction, agriculture and land use and transport, as well as a place-based plan for Grangemouth, which alone is responsible for between 8 and 10 per cent of our national emissions. We will then carry out a massive exercise across Scotland to ensure that the detail in those plans is co-designed with the communities that will be most affected.

Next spring, we will outline our initial plans and begin that debate, which will take into account the need to be transformational.

Yes. Every part of what we are discussing will be a massive challenge for Scotland and for society, given what we are facing and what we have to do in the coming decades to 2030 and to 2045.

According to reports, Scotland has the second-best electric car charging point infrastructure in the UK outside London. Other parts of the UK are trying to catch up and, as Graham Simpson said, we have to do better. Of course I accept that, and I accept that the challenge is massive, but we are making progress on that agenda. We are trying to achieve the transformation of our economy and our society, but where we got to today took us several hundred years and we are trying to cram the equivalent transformation into the next two or three decades, so it is a big challenge.

All I can say is that some of the changes that we require to make to reduce our emissions and to decarbonise Scotland are so challenging that we need to have political consensus to support those measures.