Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, April 25, 2023

Official Report 925KB pdf

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Global Intergenerational Week 2023

The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-08189, in the name of Christine Grahame, on global intergenerational week 2023. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I encourage members who are not participating and who are leaving the chamber to leave as quickly and quietly as possible.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament marks Global Intergenerational Week 2023, which runs from 24 to 30 April in conjunction with Generations Working Together; considers that Scotland is a nation that values fairness, equality and community, as well as the importance of building a society where people of all ages can live happy, healthy and connected lives; recognises the view that there is an urgent need for Scotland to become an intergenerational nation, where people of all ages can work together, learn from each other and support each other in building stronger, healthier communities; acknowledges what it considers the importance of intergenerational work in tackling social isolation and loneliness, reducing ageism and improving the physical and mental health and wellbeing of people of all ages; believes that intergenerational work can reinforce Scottish social values, by promoting understanding, empathy and respect between people of different ages, and notes the calls on the Scottish Government, local authorities and all other relevant bodies to prioritise intergenerational work and develop policies and initiatives that promote intergenerational collaboration and understanding, across a vast range of policy areas, including health and social care, early years and education, and community planning.

16:58  

I thank all those who signed my motion, which has allowed it to be debated in this global intergenerational week.

Global intergenerational week is in its fourth year, and it now involves 15 countries, including Australia, Sweden, Mexico and the countries of the United Kingdom, including Scotland, of course. The campaign is aimed at inspiring individuals, groups, organisations and local and national Governments to connect people of all ages—especially younger and older generations—to share good practice and take opportunities to come together, to enjoy one another’s company, and to make friendships that cross the age divides. That can be done in the simplest of ways, such as through physical activities, chatting, gardening, baking and the arts. In Scotland, the lead organisation is Generations Working Together.

Some of those activities already happen quite naturally, of course, through grandparenting and interactions with elderly relatives and neighbours. It can be about cuddling into granny or grandad telling a story from a book or simply sharing memories from the past—embellished, of course, at least in my case, for dramatic or romantic effect. That is special, and it gives parents a break. Walking hand in hand in the sunshine, with the young one chattering away and the elder out and about rather than sofa bound, is the stuff of abiding memories.

That can happen in more established settings, such as a care setting, when young ones come in to share simple play and perhaps perform a song or two. In schools, it can involve a lesson in social history—on what it was like to grow up post-war with the remnants of rationing, or in the swinging 60s, when miniskirts were all the fashion and the young rebelled against the older generation. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. It can involve a young person showing someone older how to use Facebook or the mysteries—for some—of the internet. It can be about using emojis in the right place at the right time for the right reason. Remember how David Cameron got caught out with the misuse of “LOL”?

In formal settings, we sometimes miss out by failing to consult and collaborate across the generations. Consider, for example, housing developments that are adaptable to changes as someone moves from single occupancy to family requirements to being elderly and perhaps the sole occupant again, and needing ground-floor living yet being able to remain in the same development. In social housing in the 1950s, there were what used to be known as pensioners houses in mixed developments, so pensioners were part of a mixed community. Developers have also contributed by building schools with integrated community spaces for use by both young and older generations in the evenings and weekends. That happens, but not often enough. It would be a good idea if new-build schools had allotments to be shared by young and old. Perhaps the older generation could share their expertise and the very young could learn that peas taste best stolen from the living pod.

That sharing breaks down barriers—real or perceived—of age divides or stereotypes. The words that we use of the elderly—the “challenge” or “burden” of demographics, people being “privileged to have pensions” and elderly people being “boring” or “selfish”—set the tone. The words that we use of the young—“a challenge”, “privileged”, “selfish” and “boring”—make the point about parallel perceptions.

Youthful exuberance in public places can be interpreted by the elderly as intimidating. I have been there, too. Coming home from a youth fellowship meeting one Sunday evening in winter, a dozen of us were gossiping at a street corner. The next thing, a policeman approached and told us to move along. Being the person I was, even then, I questioned his authority, as we were “not breaking the law, this is a democracy”—and so on. I added that we were the youth fellowship, for goodness’ sake. It transpired that nearby households had reported us because of the noise that we were making. Needless to say, my challenge did not go down well, as the officer escorted me home. Yes: plus ça change.

Age discrimination against the older generation is alive and well, but so is age discrimination against the young. The untrammelled energy of youth can be annoying, but so, too, can the slower pace of the elderly irritate those who are young, when life is in a hurry. Tolerance and understanding is a good prescription.

It is generalising generational behaviour that is at fault. Individual-to-individual interaction can be quite a different matter. That is why one-to-one encounters—personal encounters between the younger and the older generations—can shatter such perceptions and, more than that, enhance respect and understanding.

The minister for older people, Ms Roddick, sat with me on the back benches until recently. She is 25, going on 26, and I am 78, going on 79. More than 50 years separate us and—dreaded thought of thoughts, for her and me—I am old enough to be her grandmother. She helped me when my Surface played up, and she still does so, and I hope that I was of use to her with my experience back here. More important, we also had fun on the back benches, where a degree of naughtiness can go unnoticed, Deputy Presiding Officer. A penchant for mischief can, after all, be delightfully intergenerational.

Thank you, Ms Grahame, but do not take the lack of comment to mean that that has gone unnoticed.

17:04  

Deputy Presiding Officer, I apologise to you, the minister and members for not being able to stay for the whole debate, as I have another event to attend this evening on behalf of the Parliament.

I congratulate Christine Grahame on securing this members’ business debate. As my party’s shadow minister for older people, I am delighted to have the opportunity to participate in it.

As we know, global intergenerational week runs for the whole week until Sunday. From its humble beginnings, the event has grown to international level in only four years, such is the importance of the campaign’s aims to inspire individuals, as well as groups, organisations and local and national Government. The aims will help us to fully embrace intergenerational practice, and they are aims that I very much commend.

The goal is to connect people of different generations in mutually beneficial activities, many of which have already been mentioned by Christine Grahame. The campaign is also an opportunity to celebrate good practice, ideas, moments and opportunities that are local to us, in which different age groups come together in friendship and fellowship.

I am encouraged that the organiser, Generations Working Together, is asking everybody to host an intergenerational mix-and-mingle event during global intergenerational week 2023. With a flexible format, the charity is keen to bring people of different generations together in exciting, creative and beneficial ways. Events can be registered and uploaded on the website.

Generations Working Together’s annual conference this year was held on the same day as international women’s day. For that event, it published a booklet to celebrate and show the invaluable work and efforts of women in advancing the intergenerational movement, for which they should be commended. With a large number of stories and features, Generations Working Together’s excellent work showcased the endeavours of women in that regard.

The conference opened with a speech from the then Minister for Equalities and Older People. She announced a £3.8 million fund to support community groups to bring people and communities together to tackle loneliness and social isolation. Although, at the time, Generations Working Together described the announcement as a

“strong indication to the value which the Scottish Government places in building communities through intergenerational activities”,

which was to be commended, it is disappointing that, only days later, in the reshuffle, that highly competent minister took up a new role. The portfolio has been handed to another member, but it has been merged into a multiple-faceted ministerial role. As I have said, I acknowledge that someone is still looking after the portfolio, but it has been included in a new, extended ministerial role, which is not to its benefit. That instantly diluted the focus on older people, with their concerns being put on the back burner. If nothing else, it certainly calls into question where the Scottish Government’s focus lies when it comes to the ageing population.

Christine Grahame’s motion

“recognises the view that there is an urgent need for Scotland to become an intergenerational nation”.

However, the latest reshuffle exposes that there are issues when it comes to loneliness and isolation. We know from studies that the impact of loneliness on the mortality of individuals is similar to that from having around 15 cigarettes a day.

I very much hope that the will set out in the motion will continue to be maintained in the ranks of the Scottish Government, because it is important. Older people matter—our communities and our constituencies are dependent on them. I hope that the success of intergenerational working continues to be a priority for the Scottish Government.

17:09  

I thank Christine Grahame for bringing the debate to the chamber, and I welcome the new ministers to the front bench. On behalf of Scottish Labour, I also welcome global intergenerational week and all the work in Scotland that looks to bring people of all ages together to ensure that generations have the best chance of a healthy and happy life together.

The work of Scotland-based Generations Working Together is exciting, and the development of policy from the manifesto of 2021 gives us much to aim for. The vision of Generations Working Together is for a Scotland where different generations are more connected and where everyone can build relationships that help to create a fairer society. In order to have a fairer society, we must prioritise the health of our population, which must surely be a priority for any Parliament and any Government. That has become even more important over the past few years, as it has been difficult for people to be connected as much as we would all like to see, and as we talk about in the chamber.

We have heard in this debate—and many other times in the chamber—that being healthy means being not only physically healthy but mentally, socially and economically healthy. Each of those crucial aspects of life play a role in determining the health and outcomes of an individual, a family or a population. The intergenerational work that we are talking about is essential, and there is now really good evidence to support just how important it is. We all know of the benefits of learning from our parents, grandparents and neighbours, and we have heard many good examples of how we as a society can encourage that and build on it for those who, in a more modern society, do not always benefit from that naturally. Christine Grahame gave us some lovely examples of how people can be intergenerational together. I hope to watch her Twitter account and check that those emojis are all in the right place.

I regret to say that I have been forbidden to use Twitter by the world at large.

That must be addressed in an intergenerational way. I hope that all your “LOLs” are in the right place.

Evidence suggests that we can sometimes live in silos in Scotland today, but the development of intergenerational space gives us a chance to grow together and to feel safe to share experiences and events. That is known to help with learning, loneliness and physical and mental health, which are all really important. We know that health inequalities exist from birth and that they continue to negatively impact people throughout their lives and can determine outcomes in later life. If we believe that intergenerational policies will benefit people and communities of all ages, we must acknowledge that and build intergenerational space and activity with health inequalities at the core of that policy development.

We must be honest about policy development. The motion

“notes the calls on the Scottish Government, local authorities and all other relevant bodies to prioritise intergenerational work and develop policies and initiatives that promote intergenerational collaboration and understanding, across a vast range of policy areas, including health and social care, early years and education, and community planning.”

That describes work across the portfolios, but the reality is that we need to fund local government to allow those things to happen. Local government is key to the development of all those policies and if we truly believe in that work we will fight to retain local government funding.

I am short of time, so I conclude by thanking everybody for contributing to the debate. There is a lot to be done. We need to challenge some of the decisions that are made and some of the inaction, but I believe that we can make it happen if we look at the issue with some urgency.

Thank you very much, Ms Mochan. I think that you can expect a strongly worded letter from the Government whip’s office for encouraging Christine Grahame on to Twitter. [Laughter.]

17:13  

I am pleased to be speaking in this debate for global intergenerational week and thank my colleague Christine Grahame for bringing it to the chamber. I, too, welcome the new ministers to the front bench.

There has never been more need for intergenerational working. During the pandemic, we saw in practice just how effective generations working together can be, with young people at the forefront of helping older people in their community.

Intergenerational week first took place in 2020 as a local campaign by St Monica Trust. Following its success, it grew into a national campaign in 2021, before it went on to become the global campaign that it is now. The campaign is led by Generations Working Together, which is an intergenerational charity that is based—I am happy to say—in Scotland. Eight countries—including America, Spain, Australia and Sweden—take part alongside partners from every nation in the United Kingdom.

More than 150 organisations have registered their support for global intergenerational week and that number continues to grow. It is through intergenerational practice that younger and older generations are able to come together and learn from each other. I was very close to my gran and I carry her influence and wisdom with me every day. One of the highlights for my late father-in-law, who died at the age of 99, was when local schoolchildren came to visit his care home. That and the regular therapy dog cheered everyone up.

I attended the first intergenerational meeting in my constituency of Strathkelvin and Bearsden in 2020, and was impressed by the passion and commitment of everyone, young and old.

One example of intergenerational practice could be the older generation and local communities helping to teach younger generations how to cook. We adults sometimes take that skill for granted as cooking is often learned from older generations in families and passed down as the foundation for a better quality of life.

As we heard from Christine Grahame and Carol Mochan, sharing skills can help both generations, the young and the not so young. Today, passing on information technology skills is a great way of bringing generations together. I know that I have enlisted the help of my son and grandchildren on many occasions.

Crucially, intergenerational practice is one way in which we can help to fight the growing epidemic of loneliness in our communities. It is estimated that around 500,000 older people can go five or even six days without speaking to or seeing anyone at all, and the number of people over the age of 50 who are experiencing loneliness is set to reach 2 million by 2025-26. That is a 49 per cent increase on the 2016-17 figures. I am sure that we all agree that that needs to change.

East Dunbartonshire Voluntary Action, which is a fantastic organisation that is based in Kirkintilloch, runs a highly successful befriending service, which has proved to be a lifeline to young and old. One older resident loved to watch horror movies but had no one to share her interest, so she was matched up with a young volunteer who shared her love of the genre and once a week they watched a movie of their choice—a perfect example of intergenerational success.

I am pleased that the Scottish Government is committed to tackling loneliness and isolation across all generations in Scotland. Generations Working Together is a national charity and the centre of excellence in intergenerational training that delivers training to communities. It is crucial that no one in any community in Scotland feels isolated or lonely. That is not the society that we want for our wonderful nation.

I strongly encourage all members to encourage intergenerational practice across their constituencies and regions, and to raise further awareness of global intergenerational work in the areas of Scotland they represent. It is important that we have a Scotland where individuals and communities are more connected, and that everyone has the opportunity to develop meaningful relationships regardless of age, status, circumstances or identity.

17:17  

I thank Christine Grahame for her motion, for securing the debate, and for her mischief. I should have done this earlier, but I now welcome Emma Roddick to her ministerial role.

Global intergenerational week and the endeavours of Generations Working Together are probably more important now than ever before. Without the core values of fairness, equality and community that are celebrated in Christine Grahame’s motion, we cannot survive the intersecting crises of climate and cost, nature and neglect, and loneliness and loss that assail us all.

There are challenges of capacity, time and resources facing this work, as well as the challenges created by those whose interests are best served by keeping us divided by age and other aspects of identity. We know that some of the barriers between generations are structural, having been constructed by decades of deliberate policy and shameful inaction. The 20th century assumption of material progress—that each generation of children would have better life experiences than their parents in terms of housing, health, work and finances—is no longer the case. Young people, and even those in early middle age, are burdened by student and other debt, exploitative and precarious work with few opportunities for career progression, expensive and unhealthy accommodation, and insufficient healthcare, especially for those in need of mental support.

We also know that the fractures of inequality cut across as well as between generations. Although many older people enjoy the benefits of having grown up under the post-war social democratic consensus, with home ownership and generous pensions, others have not been so fortunate. Poorly built and insulated housing, inadequate public transport and pressures on the health service can particularly impact on older people, especially those surviving on low incomes.

I am proud of what the Scottish Greens have done to address some of those issues, recognising that safer, greener and fairer communities and environments are of benefit to everyone, whatever our age. I am also proud of our on-going work to challenge the toxic narrative that LGBTQI+ rights—particularly trans rights—are issues of concern only for young people. If it is true that we need less sleep as we grow older, we are looking forward to plenty of time to be, as the Tory press likes to say, more and more woke.

Anyone who saw images of the giant Extinction Rebellion gathering in London last weekend will know that addressing climate change, and the need for urgent action and justice, are other imperatives that unite both young and old. Our younger generations, including the tiniest children, will bear the greatest burdens of the climate and biodiversity crises, which will affect every aspect of their lives. Older people are increasingly aware of what that means—that Governments, corporations and elites have let us all down and that it is our responsibility, whatever our age, to make our voices heard in love and rage.

It is never too late to make climate justice, environmental justice, justice for refugees and justice for all those pushed to the margins of our communities our business. At the end of a life of privilege and power, Shakespeare’s King Lear finds himself, along with his fool, exiled to a stormy and barren heath. Brutally marginalised himself, he appreciates for the very first time the suffering of the poor—those whose

“houseless heads and unfed sides”

have no choice but to

“bide the pelting of this pitiless storm”.

In sorrow and shame, he says:

“I have taken too little care of this”.

We now stand amid the pitiless storms of the climate emergency, the agonies of the cost crisis and the relentless attacks of the Westminster Government, as we heard this afternoon, on the dispossessed and exiled of the world. Our only hope, whether we are closer in age to Lear or to Cordelia, is to take care—care of our earth, care of our communities and care of one another across the generations.

17:22  

I am delighted to be closing this debate on global intergenerational week 2023, which runs until 30 April. I thank my colleague Christine Grahame for lodging the motion and for complimenting my IT skills. To be honest, her youthful exuberance on the back benches is getting a bit much for me at my age, but I like to think that we have built a nice intergenerational friendship at work.

I offer my warm thanks to fellow MSPs for attending and taking part in this important debate and for their helpful and informative contributions. It is important that Parliament comes together to support and celebrate this global event, which is supported by Generations Working Together, the nationally recognised centre of excellence that supports the development and integration of intergenerational work across Scotland. Through the equality and human rights fund, the Scottish Government has provided £600,000 to Generations Working Together to support its valuable work up to 2024.

For older people in particular, intergenerational practice can alleviate loneliness, encourage participation and increase mobility and happiness. Rona Mackay was right to focus on the “epidemic of loneliness”, as she put it. Tackling loneliness and social isolation is a key priority for the Government, and she will know that I have an eye on it, given that I have constituents in rural and island areas. That is why we have published a new delivery plan to tackle social isolation and loneliness, and we also launched a new social isolation and loneliness fund on 8 March.

In the first 100 days of this parliamentary session, we invested £1 million to fund immediate work by organisations that tackle social isolation and loneliness—I wish that that term had not been put in my speech five times—including helplines, befriending services and practical support. In January, as part of our emergency response to the cost crisis, we provided a further £971,000 to organisations working to tackle isolation and loneliness over the winter period.

Men’s sheds are consistent with the values that are set out in the national performance framework, as they help to create a society that treats all our people with kindness, dignity and compassion. They help to tackle social isolation and achieve positive mental and physical health outcomes—especially for older people—and they can play a role in intergenerational learning by enabling a space for younger and older people to work and learn new skills together. That is why the Scottish Government supports the Scottish Men’s Sheds Association, which has been the national support organisation for men’s sheds since 2016. Led by Jason Schroeder, the SMSA has played an important role in growing the movement to more than 200 men’s sheds today.

We also value the massive contribution that volunteers make to people’s lives and we appreciate all who give their time to volunteer and make things better for others. Scotland’s volunteering action plan aims to create a Scotland where everyone can volunteer more often and throughout their lives.

Before I conclude, I would like to make it clear to colleagues who somehow missed Christine Grahame’s introduction of me that I am the minister for older people. My brief is a large brief—I appreciate that—but if we consider the intersectional inequalities that exist for older people who are LGBTQ, from a minority ethnic background or are disabled, that makes sense, as it is important to consider equality as a whole. I promise that the Scottish Government has not deprioritised older people and that I will stick up for Scotland’s older people as their minister.

Global intergenerational week provides an opportunity to reinforce the connections that we know are needed to build a stronger, fairer society. We have come a long way towards a more inclusive and equal Scotland where everyone can play their part in shaping their communities, but there is more to do. I look forward to Christine Grahame being a loud voice in my ear and making sure that we get it right.

Meeting closed at 17:26.