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Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Thursday, February 23, 2023


Contents


Portfolio Question Time


Social Justice, Housing and Local Government

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)

The next item of business is portfolio questions on social justice, housing and local government.

Members who wish to ask a supplementary question should press their request-to-speak buttons during the relevant question, or type “R” in the chat function. As ever, I make a plea for succinct questions and answers, to allow me to get in as many members as possible.


Winter Heating Payment

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of any benefits of paying the winter heating payment in November rather than February. (S6O-01916)

The Minister for Social Security and Local Government (Ben Macpherson)

As I made clear to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee on 15 December, and alluded to again this morning, some responses to our consultation suggested that winter heating payments should be made earlier, and I am open to reviewing the bringing forward of payments in future years.

For the first year of the payment, which is being paid today and in the days and weeks ahead, it was not possible to make payments earlier, because the Department for Work and Pensions was unable to provide the required data prior to 31 January.

I remind Parliament that, through the payment, we will ensure that 400,000 low-income people are given a guaranteed £50 to help with their heating costs, no matter where they live or what the weather is.

Jeremy Balfour

I thank the minister for his answer but, this year, the winter heating payment has missed the mark. It has come far too late, after the worst of the weather has passed, and has missed a number of people, including many who are on disability benefits.

In the review that the minister mentioned, will he look at bringing the timetable forward? Will he also look at expanding the criteria so that the payment is made to all people who are on adult disability benefits, whatever level they are on?

Ben Macpherson

I disagree with the sentiment in Mr Balfour’s questions. The winter heating payment is a huge expansion in support. On average, in the past seven years, only around 185,000 people in Scotland received the United Kingdom equivalent—the cold weather payment—before it was replaced with the winter heating payment. Today, through our benefit, 400,000 people are receiving guaranteed support, no matter where they live. People who would not in all likelihood, or in most winters, have got a cold weather payment, are now guaranteed a reliable payment from the Scottish Government.

We will continue to look at how we can improve the benefit, as we do with all of our benefits, and we will do so in good faith. With regard to exploring the feasibility of moving payments forward in future years, I confirm that engagement between the Scottish Government and DWP officials on that matter has already started.

Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)

As the minister has just outlined, the winter heating payment will pay out around £20 million to 400,000 people, which is more than double the £8.3 million that the DWP provided to only 185,000 households in each of the past seven years. Given that, last year, no cold weather payments were triggered in Shetland, Orkney, Wick, Glasgow, Edinburgh or Fife, does the minister agree that the new system will ensure that more people receive reliable support, regardless of the weather, and that it is, therefore, fairer?

Ben Macpherson

Emma Roddick highlights really important matters, because cold weather payments provide no guaranteed support, and there are years when no one will receive anything. For example, last year, only 11,000 people received a payment, and in 2019-20 as few as 4,000 people received support. That is why we have made the changes with the winter heating payment, to make sure that it is more reliable and not contingent on the location of weather stations, which often do not reflect the conditions that people are experiencing.

Our £20 million investment ensures that all the 400,000 low-income individuals who are entitled to the benefit will automatically receive a payment, regardless of the temperature or their location. I am really glad that those payments are going out to people today and in the days and weeks ahead.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)

One thing that the minister has omitted to say is that nearly 100,000 people will lose money as a result of this, because the weather has already dropped below the temperatures at which they would get some money. What will the minister do to ensure that those people’s shortfalls are caught, and can he guarantee that enough data will be transferred in time to ensure that the winter heating payments next year are paid in winter rather than closer to spring, as is the case this year?

Ben Macpherson

I am not sure what assessment is behind the statements that Pam Duncan-Glancy has made, and the figure of 100,000. As far as I am aware, unless I am mistaken, the cold weather payments would have been triggered only once this winter to date, and only in certain places where weather stations recorded a temperature of zero degrees for seven consecutive days. Of course, that one trigger would only have initiated a payment of £25 for those people in those places, whereas, today and in the days and weeks ahead, people will be receiving £50 from the Scottish Government. More people, more money on average and a better system—that is what we are delivering, and we are very proud to do so.


Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Delivery of Local Services in 2023-24)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what discussions it has had with COSLA about the delivery of local services over the next financial year. (S6O-01917)

The Minister for Social Security and Local Government (Ben Macpherson)

Ministers and officials regularly meet representatives from COSLA—indeed, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government and I had a meeting with the COSLA presidential team yesterday. Ministers and officials also regularly meet individual local authorities to discuss a range of issues as part of our commitment to working in partnership with local government, as two spheres of government, to improve outcomes for the people of Scotland.

The impact of the settlement will depend on how local authorities allocate the total resources available to them, as was agreed in the budget earlier this week, and the level of service that they then provide over the next financial year.

The Scottish Government recognises the crucial role that councils and their employees play in our communities across Scotland and the challenging financial circumstances that they, and the Scottish Government, face.

Tess White

COSLA’s cries of “SOS—save our services” have been ignored by this Scottish National Party Government. That will have a massive bearing on the ability of councils in North East Scotland to properly fund even statutory public services. Now there are also question marks over the Big Noise project in Torry and the Sistema Scotland equivalent in Dundee. Aberdeen City Council and Dundee City Council are struggling to find even the meagre resources that are required to support those transformational music projects for disadvantaged young people.

Will the minister commit to discussing with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy whether fair funding for councils can be enshrined in law to help to protect services in the future?

Ben Macpherson

In 2023-24, local authorities in North East Scotland will receive more than £1.7 billion to fund local services, which equates to an extra £124.7 million—or an additional 7.4 per cent—compared with 2022-23 to support vital day-to-day services. I commend the member, in her representation of her constituents, for raising important points around important projects in her region, and I encourage her to continue to engage with the local authorities in her region and finance ministers on behalf of those organisations.

As the member knows, the Scottish Government has a largely fixed budget. We have used our taxation powers progressively, which the member’s party opposes, and we have made allocations to significant social security payments, including those referred to in my previous answer.

If they are serious about representing their constituents in the challenging financial circumstances that we face, the Scottish Conservatives need to bring to the chamber proposals and solutions for the reallocation of resources. They cannot ask for more money without citing where that money will come from in a largely fixed financial envelope.

We did not hear suggestions in this budget process, which concluded earlier this week. I encourage the Scottish Conservatives to raise their game in the financial year ahead.

Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)

In the budget on Tuesday, the Deputy First Minister announced an extra £100 million to cover 2.5 per cent of the pay award to non-teaching staff. However, the cost of that 2.5 per cent is £155 million. When is the Government likely to announce the additional funding to meet the Government’s commitments?

Ben Macpherson

I thank the member for his question and encourage his further engagement with finance ministers, who are the principal ministers with regard to local government finance.

As the member alluded to, we are increasing the resource that is available to local government by over £793 million. That includes the £570 million from the budget announcement in December, plus, as Mr Griffin referred to, an additional £100 million for non-teaching pay in 2023-24, and £123 million to support the teachers pay negotiation, which was announced during stage 3 of the budget bill by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery on Tuesday.

We have announced what I have referred to. We have concluded the budget process. Of course, there are on-going considerations around teachers pay, and ministers are very focused on finding solutions, working with our local government colleagues to help resolve these matters.

Before I call the next member seeking to ask a supplementary, I say to the minister that we need to have a bit shorter responses, otherwise we will not get in all the members who are seeking to ask questions.

Kaukab Stewart (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)

Does the minister share my appreciation for the work of Scottish National Party councillors on Glasgow City Council, who last week passed their budget, which protected vital services in the face of some of the most difficult times for Scottish public finances in living memory? Given that Labour councillors not only failed to present an alternative budget but failed to turn up at all, what does he think their actions say about their respect for democracy?

I perhaps should have added that we should have shorter questions as well.

Ben Macpherson

I will not respond in depth to what has been said. I think that in these times, it is important that all elected members act in a responsible way, which involves making sure that they are present for important decisions.


Domestic Violence (Support for Women with No Recourse to Public Funds)

3. Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government what engagement it has had with the United Kingdom Government regarding support that can be provided for women living in Scotland who are fleeing domestic violence and have no recourse to public funds. (S6O-01918)

The Minister for Equalities and Older People (Christina McKelvie)

The Scottish Government is working to protect all women who flee abuse. We are clear that women with no recourse to public funds should be offered the same level of support as other women in Scotland and should not face disadvantage.

We continue to engage with the UK Government to ensure that all victims of domestic abuse are afforded the same protections and support. Our ending destitution together strategy urges the UK Government to immediately remove, and cease to apply, no recourse to public funds conditions in relation to people in vulnerable circumstances, including women who are experiencing domestic abuse.

Rona Mackay

I am very heartened to hear that the Scottish Government will continue to press the UK Government for those powers and for powers over immigration. Can the minister confirm that, when Scotland is independent, all women living in Scotland who flee domestic abuse will have access to public funds?

Christina McKelvie

Yes. It is clear that we need our own immigration system to address Scotland’s distinct demographic, labour market and economic challenges. We have set out how the devolution of migration powers would work. Everyone in our communities, including people in the UK asylum and immigration systems, should have the right to access support in times of need.

We have written to the UK Government urging it to reverse the policy of restricting applications for indefinite leave to remain for survivors of domestic abuse or violence, and to widen eligibility to include migrant survivors who are excluded from the concession simply because they are not in the UK on a spousal visa. It is not acceptable that people, including those who are fleeing domestic abuse, face destitution or are forced to remain in unsafe conditions because of their immigration status.

Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)

It is, disproportionately, women who are left without recourse to public funds after having fled an abuser. We know that the complex and inhumane system is almost impossible to navigate without support from outside organisations and legal assistance. I recognise the work of the Scottish Women’s Rights Centre in that regard. What asks of the UK Government are being made to secure support and funding to help women in that situation?

Christina McKelvie

I join Beatrice Wishart in praising the work of the Scottish Women’s Rights Centre. It does immense work that we are incredibly proud of.

During my time in the Parliament, which is now more than 15 years, Scottish ministers have repeatedly and consistently raised the issue of no recourse to public funds. The impact on people living in Scotland of not having recourse to public funds because of the UK Government—particularly the Home Office and its disgraceful actions against women—is absolutely disgraceful. Any member, particularly Conservatives, who comes to the chamber to ask me to do more for women in those situations should look at the system that creates those situations.

I echo Beatrice Wishart’s sentiments and reassure her that we take every opportunity to press the UK Government to change the disgraceful system that it currently operates.


Ukraine Longer-term Resettlement Fund

4. Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)

To ask the Scottish Government what progress has been made toward increasing the availability of longer-term housing options for displaced people from Ukraine using the £50 million Ukraine longer-term resettlement fund. (S6O-01919)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)

When including the pilot in North Lanarkshire, a total of four projects providing 754 homes have so far been approved through the Ukraine longer-term resettlement fund. Those are supported by almost £13 million of Scottish Government grant funding. To date, more than 400 homes have been brought back into use, and work is under way to deliver the remaining homes as quickly as possible. We continue to work with councils and registered social landlords on a pipeline of further applications to bring more homes back into use at a time when they are needed most.

Mark Ruskell

Having somewhere safe to live is an absolute necessity for every displaced person who is rebuilding their life here in Scotland, free from war, persecution and violence. However, over recent weeks, we have seen horrific racist attacks on people seeking asylum who are living in hotels, which have been whipped up by far-right agitators and hostile language in Westminster. Will the cabinet secretary update me on what the Scottish Government is doing to protect people seeking refuge from far-right attacks?

Shona Robison

I share Mark Ruskell’s concerns. The Scottish Government unequivocally condemns any form of hatred or prejudice—indeed, it condemns hostile language, too. It is not acceptable that people who have fled war and persecution are being targeted in that way. Such attacks will not be tolerated, and we must all play our part in challenging dangerous rhetoric that seeks to divide our communities. People seeking asylum should be treated with dignity and respect at all stages of the asylum process, with suitable accommodation provided based in communities. The Home Office is, of course, responsible for asylum accommodation, so it must ensure that people are safe and can access the support and services that they need.

Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab)

The MS Ambition and the MS Victoria are temporary homes to thousands of Ukrainian refugees. The lease on those boats will soon come to an end and those on the boats will need to be rehoused in suitable accommodation. Many individuals on those boats have formed communities and begun to put down roots where they have been docked. What action is being taken to ensure the safe and suitable rehousing of every individual who is currently residing on those boats?

Shona Robison

It is very important that the people on the cruise ships, which have provided important temporary accommodation, are supported into settled accommodation, whether that is through hosts, in social rented accommodation or even in private accommodation when that is appropriate. I know that my colleague Neil Gray is working hard with agencies to make that happen at pace, and I will ask him to write to the member with an update.

Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)

The Scottish Government and local authorities have exceeded expectations by providing £200 million in this financial year to safely accommodate 23,000 displaced Ukrainians. It is clear, though, that to maintain the current level of support the United Kingdom Government must commit to funding, too. Will the Scottish Government continue to urge its Westminster counterparts not to slash the tariff funding for local authorities, so that Scottish councils can continue to meet the housing and public service needs of displaced Ukrainians, who are welcome in our country?

Shona Robison

The Scottish Government is proud to work in partnership with local authorities to support displaced Ukrainian people. The UK Government’s decision to reduce the tariff funding that is available to local authorities from £10,500 to £5,900 per arrival in the first year, to replace year 2 funding with a UK-wide fund, which could be as low as £1,500 per arrival, and to discontinue the education tariff completely will make the task of supporting displaced Ukrainians that much harder. We will continue to press the UK Government to increase, not decrease, the support that is available to perform that vital long-term work.


Housing Associations (Independence)

To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on whether housing associations should remain independent where possible, rather than being subsumed by larger organisations. (S6O-01920)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)

The Scottish Government values the diversity of the housing association sector in Scotland, which is one of its strengths. If a housing association decides that it is in the best interests of its tenants to transfer to another association, that is a matter for the independent governing body to consider.

An association must also consult its tenants about its proposal to pursue a transfer to another registered social landlord, and any transfer will not proceed unless it is supported by tenants in an independent ballot. Therefore, tenants will have the final say.

John Mason

I recently met the management of Reidvale Housing Association in my constituency, which the cabinet secretary might have heard of. It is one of the best-known housing associations in Scotland as a result of protecting the area when it was threatened with demolition some years ago.

The problem is that the housing association’s rents were too low, so it has not built up reserves for maintenance. However, it has little or no debt, and there seems to be no need for a transfer of engagements, but it could be attractive to a larger organisation to strengthen its balance sheets.

Can the cabinet secretary confirm that the management and the Scottish Housing Regulator should encourage tenants of the association that it should stand alone if that is financially sustainable?

Shona Robison

Ultimately, that is a matter for Reidvale Housing Association to make a judgement on, in consultation with its tenants. The regulator has been engaging with Reidvale about some serious weaknesses in its compliance with regulatory requirements, some of which John Mason identified in his question.

Reidvale carried out an independent review to consider how it can best address those weaknesses and deliver services for its tenants. It will consult with its tenants and, if they are in favour of a transfer being taken forward to the next stage, a business case and a tenant ballot will follow.

The regulator continues to seek assurance that the interests of Reidvale’s tenants are protected. I emphasise again that it is the tenants who will have the final say.

Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)

Being able to provide mid-market rent sustainably is crucial to meeting affordable housing targets. Will the Scottish Government commit to have mid-market rents that registered social landlords or their subsidiaries provide redesignated so that they come under social rent regulations instead of private rent regulations?

Shona Robison

There are good reasons why the position is what it is. Miles Briggs will understand the required criteria with regard to funding social housing and mid-market rent; I am keen to see an expansion of both. We will continue to consider whether there are things that we can do to encourage that work and to make it easier.

We have our commitment to make available £3.5 billion in this parliamentary session for the delivery of more affordable and social homes. We want to grow that pot, working with partners in local authorities, registered social landlords and others.


Child Poverty (Impact of Reduction in Local Government Funding)

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the potential impact on its on-going targets to tackle child poverty of any reduction in local government funding. (S6O-01921)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)

There has been an increase in local government funding of £793 million compared to last year, which means that we are providing nearly £13.5 billion in the 2023-24 local government settlement.

The Scottish budget sets out the planned investments, including through local authorities, which are key to tackling child poverty. Those investments include almost £70 million to scale up parental employability support and around £1 billion in early learning and childcare provision.

Decisions on the spending of the rest of the local government budget are devolved to local authorities. We would encourage local authorities to make the investments that they are making to add to those initiatives to help tackle child poverty.

Carol Mochan

How can the Government justify leaving Midlothian Council—the council area in Scotland with the fastest-growing population of people, many of whom are families who are struggling with the serious increases in the cost of living—with a budget shortfall of nearly £14 million? How does the cabinet secretary imagine that, with that burden, that council and many others like it will be able to meet wider anti-poverty targets?

Shona Robison

The Scottish Government has made tackling the cost of living crisis a key priority. We are doing what we can within our powers. In the previous financial year, we allocated around £3 billion to support families, including with our major investment in the Scottish child payment, which is literally helping to keep food on the table with £25 per week per child for eligible families. We are investing more than £84 million in discretionary housing payments to provide direct financial support to people who are struggling with housing costs, in order to mitigate United Kingdom Government welfare policies such as the benefit cap.

We are doing what we can. Many of those initiatives are delivered through local government, but it would not be fair to say that this Government has not done absolutely everything within its power to help families at this difficult time.


Rural Housing Fund

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the rural housing fund. (S6O-01922)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)

Since 2016, the £30 million demand-led rural and islands housing fund has provided an additional delivery route for community organisations, development trusts, private landowners and developers. To September 2022, the fund delivered 164 homes and provided funding of £16.7 million. It supplements the considerable mainstream activity in rural and island areas that delivered almost 8,000 affordable homes between 2016-17 and 2021-22.

Liam Kerr

Although £25 million was promised to be spent on rural housing by 2021, less than half of that has been spent. What was spent led to a mere 300 homes being built or approved. The north-east got only 12 of those, all of which are in Angus. The Government promised 110,000 affordable homes across Scotland by 2032. Will that promise be met? If so, how many of the 110,000 homes will be in the north-east?

Shona Robison

We are committed to delivering 110,000 affordable homes by 2032, of which 10 per cent will be in our remote, rural and island communities. We are making available £3.5 billion during this parliamentary session for affordable housing across Scotland. That builds on the delivery of 115,000 affordable homes that have been built since 2007. We have a track record of delivering that scale of affordable housing, and we will continue to deliver on that scale.

The rural and islands housing fund is demand led. We want to see more projects coming forward, and we are doing what we can to encourage that, including through the development of our new rural and islands action plan, which will be published in the coming weeks.


National Health Service Dental Care Provision

8. Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the social justice secretary has had with the health secretary regarding any disproportionate impact on households experiencing poverty, and any other social justice impacts, of the reported lack of NHS dental care provision in some parts of Scotland. (S6O-01923)

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)

We are aware of the hardship that people are facing right now, and we continue to urge the United Kingdom Government to take action to support people through the cost of living crisis. This Government has allocated £3 billion to help households through a range of measures.

On dental care, the Government has already introduced free dental care for young people between the ages of 18 and 25, and we have made a commitment to abolish all national health service dental charges in this parliamentary session. We continue to support health boards to deliver NHS dental services, and we have put in place additional recruitment and retention incentives in remote and rural areas.

Oliver Mundell

Those commitments count for nothing in places where there is no NHS dental provision. I am really worried about young people and, in particular, pregnant women in parts of my constituency who cannot access an NHS dentist. The advice from the health board is that they should try to find a private dentist. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is wrong, and will she approach NHS Dumfries and Galloway and ask it to think again?

Shona Robison

I will, of course, get the health minister responsible to reply in some detail on the issue, but I can say that there is a framework of support to encourage more dentists to remote and rural areas, including the whole of the NHS Dumfries and Galloway health board area. I understand that golden hello payments of up to £37,500 are being made available to trainee dentists who wish to start their career by providing NHS dental services. That incentive has been instrumental in attracting vocational trainees to the board. I think that there are six vocational trainee placements, and it is hoped that at least the same number will be recruited later this year. Action is being taken.

In addition, I understand that unregistered patients will continue to be able to access emergency and urgent care via the public dental service clinics in Dumfries and Stranraer, and that the board has agreed to recruit additional dental helpline staff in response to the increase in call volumes, in order to help to get people to the right place.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes portfolio question time. I apologise to the few members whom I could not manage to squeeze in.

There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business, to allow front-bench teams to change positions, should they wish to do so.