Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, February 22, 2023

Official Report 1123KB pdf

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Business Motion

The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-07994, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. I invite George Adam to move the motion.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees—

(a) the following programme of business—

Tuesday 28 February 2023

2.00 pm Time for Reflection

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

followed by Economy and Fair Work Committee Debate: Retail and Town Centres in Scotland

followed by Committee Announcements

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Wednesday 1 March 2023

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Constitution, External Affairs and Culture;
Justice and Veterans

followed by Scottish Government Debate: Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2023

followed by Scottish Government Debate: Dementia Strategy

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)

5.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Thursday 2 March 2023

11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions

11.40 am General Questions

12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions

followed by Members’ Business

2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Education and Skills

followed by Ministerial Statement: Caledonian Sleeper Train

followed by Scottish Government Debate: Arctic Connections – Scotland’s Growing Links with the Arctic

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

Tuesday 7 March 2023

2.00 pm Time for Reflection

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

followed by Scottish Government Business

followed by Committee Announcements

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Wednesday 8 March 2023

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Covid Recovery and Parliamentary Business;
Finance and the Economy

followed by Scottish Government Business

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)

5.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Thursday 9 March 2023

11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions

11.40 am General Questions

12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions

followed by Members’ Business

2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Net Zero, Energy and Transport

followed by Scottish Government Business

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

(b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 27 February 2023, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[George Adam]

17:13  

I know that we had a topical question on the subject of the insertion that I wish to make into next week’s business, on the teachers strike, but I think that members will readily agree that there is a dramatic difference in terms of accountability between a topical question and a ministerial statement.

We face a further 20 days of rolling strikes, which will take place across Scotland from 13 to 21 March, and, of course, there will be two days of national strikes next week. Between 22 February and 24 February, specific action will be taken in the constituencies of the current First Minister, the Deputy First Minister, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and the Scottish Greens’ education spokesperson, and in the council ward of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities resources spokesperson. My colleague Alexander Burnett has requested a statement on the subject, but his request has been flatly turned down by the Minister for Parliamentary Business.

Last week, a new offer from the Scottish Negotiating Committee for Teachers was rejected by the Educational Institute of Scotland. That offer was made at the behest of the Scottish Government. Let us be frank. I think that we might all agree that it was disrespectful to the EIS and to the teachers of Scotland that the details of that offer were leaked even before it had been presented to the EIS. That is hardly the way to build trust and confidence in what is already a strained and stressed negotiation situation. The cabinet secretary should come to the chamber, make a statement on the current dispute, face questions and give answers on her accountability.

This morning, the cabinet secretary appeared before the Education, Children and Young People Committee, where she disclosed that there will be a £123 million hole in the 2023-24 education and skills budget. When asked in what budget lines, in her remit, the cuts would be made, she said that she did not know. I think that that is frankly irresponsible; she should have been able to answer that question. It should concern every member of Parliament that there is a further £123 million cut to be made to education and skills. That is another reason why the cabinet secretary should make a statement to the chamber and be questioned by members of Parliament on all sides.

We should be getting answers from the cabinet secretary. I know that she likes to treat me to a little homily about how difficult it is to be in government and to have to make difficult decisions, but that is the nature of government. The cabinet secretary should explain herself and her policy on the matter to the chamber.

Ensuring that this Parliament is respected, informed and able to do its job of scrutinising the education secretary and, indeed, other Cabinet members is, I believe, essential. I urge members—in the same spirit with which my colleague Murdo Fraser concluded his speech a few moments ago—to vote for the amendment to bring the cabinet secretary to the chamber and allow her, as I am sure that she is more than capable of doing, to explain what she is going to do to end these strikes and exactly how and where she will make further cuts to the education and skills budget next year.

The strikes affect us all. They are impacting on parents, children and teachers. We are getting very close to exams, and the impact that the on-going strikes might have on exams is quite worrying. The exams timetable is at risk and there is a risk of a boycott of marking exam papers, which is being touted by teachers’ representatives.

A statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills is essential, and it is essential that it is heard in the chamber as soon as possible, which I think means next week.

I move amendment S6M-07994.1, to insert, after first “followed by Topical Questions (if selected)”:

“followed by Ministerial Statement: Teacher Strikes”.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. In the debate on A9 dualling, in response to Mr Halcro Johnston’s question on when ministers were first informed about the move from the 2025 deadline, I said late December. The actual date was 7 December, and I wanted to put that on the record.

That is not a point of order but it is on the record.

I call George Adam to respond on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau.

17:18  

I take this and every issue that we discuss in the chamber very seriously, as do my colleagues in the Government. It is unhelpful when we constantly hear from Opposition members that there is disrespect to the Parliament, because nothing could be further from the truth. The Scottish Government respects this Parliament, and others should treat this institution in the same manner.

Part of that means that, when we are talking about the interaction between cabinet secretaries, ministers and members over the period, we should be respectful to one another, as you are constantly telling us, Presiding Officer, and not come here at 5 o’clock at night—

Will the member take an intervention?

Yes, I would be quite happy to.

I agree that we need respect one another and Parliament, but we also need to respect teachers and parents. They are looking for answers on what the Government is doing to resolve the dispute, and that is the most important thing.

As I said, I take these issues seriously, along with everything else that we discuss in the chamber.

To get back to what I was saying, we talk about the interaction between ministers and committees, but people coming to the chamber later on and putting across what they believe was said is not really fair or helpful with regard to the scrutiny of Government or the ability of the Government to put forward its position.

I want to talk about the information before us, much of which Mr Kerr has already mentioned. There is a simple explanation for why there is no need for a statement next week. As Mr Kerr noted, yesterday, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills responded to a topical question in the chamber and, this morning, she appeared at the Education, Children and Young People Committee to give evidence on teachers’ pay. The fact that Mr Kerr never got the questions answered that he wanted is perhaps more down to Mr Kerr than anyone else.

Discussions are on-going with union and local government partners to resolve the dispute, and we hope to deliver a fair and affordable settlement for teachers in the very near future. Any statement at this stage could influence sensitive negotiations that are now at a critical stage. That feeds into what Mr Bibby said about being mindful of teachers and members of the public.

This is a sensitive situation and we are at a sensitive time in the negotiations. To accept Mr Kerr’s amendment would be irresponsible.

The question is, that amendment S6M-07994.1, in the name of Stephen Kerr, which seeks to amend business motion S6M-07994, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

There will be a division.

There will be a short pause to allow members to access the digital voting system.

17:21 Meeting suspended.  

17:23 On resuming—  

We move to the vote on amendment S6M-07994.1, in the name of Stephen Kerr. Members should cast their votes now.

For

Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Cameron, Donald (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)

Against

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)

The result of the division is: For 57, Against 66, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

The next question is, that business motion S6M-07994, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme, be agreed to.

Motion agreed to.