Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Meeting date: Thursday, January 19, 2023

Official Report 633KB pdf

---

Presidency of the Council of the European Union

Our second agenda item is on the presidency of the Council of the European Union, and we are going to take evidence from Her Excellency Mikaela Kumlin Granit, Ambassador of Sweden to the United Kingdom. We want to examine the priorities of the Swedish presidency of the Council of the European Union, which runs from January to June this year.

I give a warm welcome to the ambassador. Your excellency, would you like to make a short opening statement?

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen and members of the Scottish Parliament and the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. It is a pleasure and an honour to be here and to have the opportunity to inform you about the Swedish priorities for the EU presidency.

Of course, as you might understand, we are assuming the presidency at a challenging time for Europe, with the war in Ukraine after the brutal Russian aggression. We have a cost of living crisis throughout the European Union through increasing inflation and fluctuating energy prices. We are therefore very humble in our aim to do our part in making the EU greener, safer and freer. That is also our slogan.

Sweden has four priorities for the coming six months: security and unity; resilience and competitiveness; prosperity and green and energy transitions; and democratic values and the rule of law. I will elaborate very briefly on each one of them.

The first is security and unity. As you will understand, Ukraine will be our overriding priority. This is not only an issue that will define our presidency, it is also one that has defined Sweden during the past year. For us, the fate of Ukraine is a very much the fate of Europe. It is also good to remind ourselves that Russian aggression is nothing less than a blatant violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of an independent country, in violation of the United Nations charter and the European security order. It is important to remind ourselves of that.

In the coming months, the EU’s responsibility will be to meet in anyway the vast needs of Ukraine, support it politically, economically and militarily, and to provide humanitarian help as well as rebuilding and reconstruction. We will also monitor Ukraine’s progress as a candidate country. Members will understand that the EU will continue to stand firmly with Ukraine, and we hope to continue to do that along with all our closest partners.

The second priority is competitiveness and resilience. European competitiveness will be decisive for the EU’s economic future, especially in today’s difficult situation. We see Europe’s competitiveness as a prerequisite for growth and prosperity, as well as for the climate transition, because those issues have become closely knit.

During the Swedish presidency, the EU will celebrate 30 years of the single market. That work will continue, as will the efforts to improve compliance with the single market rules that are already in place. We will also focus on opportunities for digital in the service sector as well as reducing regulatory burdens.

Our ambition is also to promote sustainable trade relations with the rest of the world, and we will work to support the EU’s continued free trade and partnership agenda with countries in the Pacific and Latin America.

Competitiveness also means resilience. It is also about safeguarding and diversifying trade as well as increasing our own production to secure the supply chains in strategically important areas.

The third priority is green and energy transition—the climate. As you know, the EU is committed, through its fit for 55 package, to reducing its net emissions by 55 per cent by 2030. Our ambition is to conclude the final stages of the legislative work. As I always say, we thank our predecessors, the Czech presidency, which carried that work forward very well. We hope to finalise the last parts of that very cumbersome work, but we are very focused on doing that, so it will be a very strong priority.

The EU institutions have agreed to phase out all new fossil fuel cars by 2035, which is a major step in the right direction. Hastening the electrification of the EU is another important aspect, especially with regard to the transport sector and industry, so a couple of directors are also looking at that.

On energy specifically, we hope to build on the work from last year, continue to cut energy supplies from Russia and to diversify to other more reliable suppliers. We also want to continue to make energy more affordable for vulnerable EU households and companies and to further drive the green transition. Those issues are all connected in different ways.

The fourth and final priority is democratic values and the rule of law. We feel that democratic values are important in and of themselves. They are also a condition for mutual trust and therefore the cornerstone of the EU. We feel that it is the duty of the Swedish presidency—as it should be and indeed is for every presidency—to stay focused on upholding our common values and the rule of law.

Thank you very much, ambassador. We have a tradition in the Scottish Parliament, which is a new Parliament—or, rather, a young Parliament—of inviting the presidency of the EU Council to attend the committee. It is something that we have done, but this is the first opportunity that we have had since Brexit to have a representative of the presidency in front of us. Therefore, we are very interested in how we can rebuild and maintain our relationships with the EU, especially given the Scottish Government’s commitment through the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021 to keep pace with European developments. Do you have any advice for us as to how, in a different relationship with the EU, we can maintain our contacts and keep pace with developments in the EU?

Yes. The United Kingdom generally and, of course, Scotland are very important for the European Union—we see you as partners. Many of these things are about keeping our connections and contacts and following what is going on in the EU on your part and on our part and keeping that up. Let us keep building on what we have. Sweden and the rest of the EU are always looking at ways to partner up. We are like-minded in so many ways, so that is a natural thing to do in support.

Thank you. I will move to questions from my colleagues. I invite Ms Boyack to come in first.

It is excellent to have you with us today. I have a follow-up question. In June last year, we had a very good visit to Brussels. We need to follow up, rebuild and reset our relationships. You have your top priorities, and I wonder about the other softer power issues, such as culture, education and tourism—you also talked about trade. Are there ways that we can re-establish connections or not lose those connections with the range of members that you have in the Council of the European Union?

Yes. We also have opportunities after the pandemic. We felt that that very much hindered our co-operation and contact, but now that we do not have to deal with that, we can speed up that co-operation and contact. You mentioned culture and tourism, which are very important aspects. There is great interest in Scotland’s culture and tourism, and we need to seek all the ways that we can to deepen and take forward that co-operation and contact.

Are there any practical ways that we could do that across the Council of Europe or by talking to different countries in the network?

You could probably do it both ways, because you can do those things bilaterally between different countries. That is one of the big things that you could do.

You opened by talking about Ukraine. I was lucky enough to attend the Nordic Council in the latter part of last year, and Ukraine dominated the discussions there. A few members are interested in that area. I bring in Dr Allan.

I echo what the convener says. However complex the relationship between the UK and the EU may be, there is a very warm relationship with Scotland that I hope we can continue to develop.

As the convener also said, a number of us have questions about Ukraine. When we talk about Ukraine, it is difficult to separate the collective EU response and the interest that we have in the Swedish response to the situation. I do not know which you want to talk about, but it would be nice to hear both perspectives on how you reacted to the situation in Ukraine.

I will start with Sweden. What happened on 24 February was very much a game changer for Sweden in relation to our security posture. Such a brutal aggression towards a country so close to us was a big and difficult event for us. It was such a big issue that—you might have followed this—after being non-aligned for more than 200 years, we, together with Finland, submitted our application to NATO.

The issue has affected all parts of our society. There has been a great outpouring of solidarity, as in many other countries, and we have taken in Ukrainian refugees. It has also affected Swedish domestic issues such as the economy, energy and so forth. Not only Sweden but the whole of the EU and the UK felt the same thing.

What happened on 24 February was an enormous historical event, and how we all came together was incredible. That unity was the most remarkable thing, and with that unity we managed to work together on agreeing up to nine sanction packages, which we did in close co-operation with the UK. We also decided to give a macro-financial package of €18 billion, with the first tranche being delivered this week. That is the largest macro-financial package that the EU has ever given to a partner country, just to show the volume.

What was really new from a Swedish perspective was that it was the first time that we delivered lethal weapons to another country since we delivered lethal weapons to Finland during the first world war—I am sure that you understand the magnitude of that. For us to do that is a big change, and the EU and UK were quick to do the same.

There are big things coming ahead, because we all know that this issue will be with us for a long time. We will continue to look at ways of supporting Ukraine in all those aspects, including reconstruction. That will be based on the G7 donors platform. There will be continued dialogue on that issue within the EU.

Work on accountability issues such as war crimes will be intensified, because we need to consider those issues right now. There are another couple of important things—for instance, as you might have followed, Ukraine is now a prospective EU country; it is a candidate country, and that process is starting. An EU-Ukraine summit at the beginning of February is also being prepared. A lot of work is going on. Looking ahead, a new sanction package will be considered.

09:15  

Unity is the most important thing and the biggest task for the presidency The presidency is a little different since the Lisbon treaty: we have a permanent president and a permanent high representative. That helps to keep unity, which is one of the most interesting things that we are seeing.

As we mentioned, Ukraine has also affected the economic and energy situations. We need to keep a lot of balls in the air. As we say in Swedish, we must be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.

In short, that is the perspective on Ukraine.

I am sure that others will also have questions about Ukraine. You mentioned a sanctions package that has been pursued at EU level. Will the presidency seek to develop that into new areas?

We are very humble about that. We have had a lot of sanction packages. We have to get unity on every new sanctions package. That is on the cards and we in Sweden see that as very important. There are many different aspects that we could go into. Right now, we are developing the ninth sanction package. That will definitely be another area that we look that.

Welcome to the committee, ambassador. It is a delight to have you here.

You have covered some of this already. I am wondering about two things. First, you spoke about military and economic assistance, but I think that you also mentioned humanitarian assistance. I am keen to hear you expand on what the EU is doing about that.

From the EU and from other partners, humanitarian aid has been very much geared towards keeping Ukrainian society sustainable. There has been a lot of suffering because of attacks on critical infrastructure such as heating and water. It has been difficult to get access to food, especially in areas near the front. That is the humanitarian side. We work in close co-operation with the UN.

The EU macro-financial package is also very much geared towards support and reform, so that there can be long-term rebuilding. Now that Ukraine is a candidate country, it is in all of our interests to rebuild it in a good and reformed way.

There are all those aspects. The donor platform that I mentioned is now being developed. It is supposed to get started now. The idea is to co-ordinate the support that Ukraine needs so that we do that efficiently. I also understand that, further down the line during this spring, we will have a reconstruction conference where those things can be sorted out. We also need to get the private sector on board to help out, along with the humanitarian and UN organisations. They should play together in concert, so that we do not double the effort but can focus on giving Ukrainians what they need, when they need it. Timing is also important.

There is still a specific issue with refugees and with the movement of Ukrainians across the EU. Do you have any observations to make about that?

We are looking at that. We have an emerging mechanism to protect refugees who are fleeing from war zones. We have special mechanisms for that and those will probably be prolonged.

We all see Ukrainians coming to our countries. Poland has taken in the most refugees, Sweden has also taken in refugees and I understand that Scotland has, too, which is impressive. As you know, Ukrainians want to go back as soon as possible, so we have to help keep them afloat for as long as we can. I think that the outpouring of solidarity from all of our countries—those in the EU and here—has been amazing, and Ukrainians also feel that. We just have to keep on showing solidarity.

I was fascinated by your comments about the role of the presidency in trying to maintain unity. It has been almost a year since the invasion, and when it happened everyone was surprised by how quick the EU moved and by how unified it was. A year on, now that Sweden holds the presidency, do you see any change to that? Has it been a hard job to keep that unity together?

I am happy that we have come back to that issue. The unity that we saw was a sign of how like-minded we are in this part of the world, that we had a shared the view on how difficult the situation was and also that we shared the same view on what is happening in Ukraine and understood how much it affects not only Europe but the rules of the game in the free world.

We have been amazed by the unity, which I think will keep withstanding. I get the sense that this is still very emotional for many people, and they are clearly struck by it, but the situation is also affecting many people economically, and so forth, so it might be more difficult to summon people to agree on new sanctions packages, because some of those sanctions might indirectly hurt some countries more than others, so it will be more complicated. The feeling of political unity is there, but we have to be a bit smarter and understand that some actions make things more complicated in the long term. We will also have to see what happens with the economy and energy prices. The faster we can find mechanisms to solve that problem and keep prices down, the easier it will be to maintain unity. We have to do all of those things at the same time.

As for keeping unity, we are part of the Lisbon treaty, so we have a different set-up than the UK does, but the role of the presidency is to be the honest broker and help both the permanent president of the European council and also the permanent representative to work behind the scenes on diplomacy. We like to do that, and Sweden is used to doing that kind of thing.

We have discussed the Ukraine situation, which has clearly had an impact on energy security, as you mentioned in your opening remarks. How do you intend to approach that issue? What implications might there be for Scotland and the United Kingdom?

You are right that energy has come to the fore. When we started planning our presidency, we had no clue that the issue would come up very much. It has been amazing to see what the EU has managed to pull together on the energy front. As you know, the EU was very dependent on Russian energy but, in eight months, we have managed to cut 80 per cent of our gas supplies from Russia. We have managed to compensate for that without having blackouts or anything by diversifying to other, more reliable suppliers and by speeding up the green transition. We have also made energy savings—I read somewhere that, so far, we have managed to save 20 per cent, which is quite good.

All those things combined have kept us afloat. We are also using the superprofits of some of the energy companies to help vulnerable households and companies to get through some of the rough patches, and we have been looking at permitting the acceleration of the green transition.

Gas prices are lower now than they were a year ago, which has a bit to do with the weather, and our storage is 80 per cent full, so we are in a relatively good place. However, we are not out of the woods, as we all know.

On diversification, it was interesting to see who were the reliable suppliers that the EU went to—it went to the US and Norway, but also the UK. We had the North Sea renewable energy agreement. That is just the way to co-operate, because we are all connected in some way. I see that as a very positive thing.

As I said, we are not out of the woods yet. The EU will now have to look at something that we all grapple with here in the EU and in the UK: how we keep energy affordable for more vulnerable households and companies. That is one of the big issues. The European Commission is also looking at how to reform the market design in some way so that it functions better. The Commission is trying to operationalise a joint purchasing mechanism whereby stakeholders meet and, in that way, facilitate the market and changes; it wants to mobilise companies and member states for that platform.

We also have to speed up and scale up the usage of renewables—we have to double that. The green transition is not only about climate change; energy independence is a security issue. That is something that you in Scotland follow. That is the future. I tell all the young people that if they want to do something interesting, they should get into renewables, because that is where the jobs are. Scotland is well placed in that. Of course, there is also the fit for 55 package.

I also said that electrification is important, and I know that we are looking at new directives on renewables, efficiencies and so on. That is a really short description of what I think is ahead of us.

There are a lot of these processes. Our job is to provide support, but we also chair many meetings at which such issues are moved ahead. We have chaired 2,000 meetings and 150 different conferences in Sweden, so we will do what we can on that side.

The response to the energy security crisis has been positive, but it has also been reactive. Is the security of critical raw materials on the radar? Individual nations will need to work with one another on a critical raw materials recycling plant, because one nation cannot do that on its own because of the economies of scale. I would be delighted if that plant was hosted in Europe or, indeed, in Dundee in Scotland. How high is critical raw materials security on your risk register?

You are right. One of the other reactions to the crisis is the realisation that the issue is not only about competitiveness—we also need resilience, and that is what you are talking about. Raw materials, rare earth deposits and semiconductors represent a weak spot.

Action is being taken on that, and I understand that the Commission is looking at a semiconductors directive, because that is key to electrification. There is work and forward looking being done. In that regard, a big deposit was found in northern Sweden just the other week; I do not know whether you followed that in the newspapers. An enormous amount of rare earth deposits was discovered—I think that it was more than 1 billion tonnes.

09:30  

There is another focus now. Before, we did not really understand the issue, but we have been made very aware that there are some countries—especially China—that are on top of these issues, so we have to make ourselves resilient by safeguarding that component in the green transition. There has been a big realisation in that respect, and I am happy that you brought up the topic, because it is the other side of the coin in the green transition.

Thank you for coming to the Scottish Parliament, and welcome to Scotland. You have commented several times on partnership and being like-minded. We are in the process of moving towards a new Scottish agriculture bill, and I noticed that agriculture is one of the priorities for your six-month term. Will you expand on where you see agriculture and food production moving?

To be honest, that is not one of my fortes. Agriculture is very important and has to do with food security. We have had to have a couple of priorities. I know that the Commission is working on that one and we have realised that it is important, not least because of Ukraine’s role in the production of food and agricultural products. The issue has risen up the agenda. It affects not only us in the EU; our third partners, especially countries that are further south, are perhaps more affected. For example, Egypt and other African countries are very much dependent on that food. In that respect, we could have major problems further down the line.

There is a lot of thinking on that, but I cannot personally give you any details. However, I would be happy to follow up on that, if you want me to.

Thank you very much for that offer. Your response emphasises the connectedness between Europe, the partners and the rest of the world. I was reflecting on connections between Sweden and Scotland. I suggest that Scotland is very much a southern Nordic nation.

Mr Golden asked about how we are moving forward with new technologies. If we think back to engineering and canals, we see that Thomas Telford was involved in the canal between Gothenburg and Stockholm, so the connections go back a long time—in fact, they go further back than that.

In your role as ambassador for Sweden, will you make some comments about how you see the Nordic Council going forward, how that ties into Sweden’s role with the EU and how Scotland can be involved in that?

First, I really underline what you said. It is so much fun to be in Scotland—I have been here a couple of times now—and I remark on the commonalities that we have.

As you say, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Scotland are the same. We have so many historical connections. I had dinner with our honorary consul, who reinforced that and gave us an even closer background. There are so many ties. From the thirty years’ war onwards, which is a long time ago, we had Scots and Swedes going to one another’s countries.

There is a lot being done on innovations and technology. Today’s version of that is all about green tech and the green transition—offshore wind and so forth. All that is following and we now have a new historical setting for what we are talking about. I really underline that.

The Nordic Council is intense and involves all the Nordic countries, but it does not figure so much in the EU presidency. That being said, there is good co-operation among the Nordic countries that are part of the EU, and we also have strong Nordic and Nordic-Baltic co-operation on all levels.

On the Nordic-Baltic level, I often meet the Nordic-Baltic ambassadors. The Council of Ministers is very much a format where we discuss more cultural issues, and we have had such discussions with Scotland. It is a very good format, and I did a lot of work on those issues previously.

We also have the presidency of the Nordic Council of Ministers every fifth year, and that is where we can set priorities within that framework. It is always a big ministerial event and I know that we have Scottish representatives, which is very much appreciated, so we should keep that up. I do not think that we will lose any interest in that; I would say that we will have even more.

It has been great having you here at this morning’s meeting. I want to go back to the issues of energy and the fit for 55 package. You emphasised Sweden’s role in finalising that, so is it now being implemented? I am interested to find out how that policy will reach out to countries that might be on the periphery of European membership or European Economic Area countries in order to meet energy needs within the European Union.

I was in Reykjavik at the Arctic Circle assembly last year, and there was a lot of interesting discussion around the potential for green hydrogen and renewables with sub-Arctic countries, industry, Governments and academics. I am interested to learn how, with green hydrogen and Europe’s hard-to-abate energy sectors, Europe will reach out to those countries that have renewable resources and draw them in to meet its energy needs.

We are not there yet with the fit for 55 package. We will need the coming months to finalise the legislative parts of it, and I hope that it will be done by the summer. It will be an enormous impulse for the green transition that will definitely affect all our partner countries and the EEA countries, because our markets are interconnected. It is also a way of being competitive. Many people and companies want to follow the green trend. If you have a big market such as the single market, as the EU does, that will give natural inspiration to many other countries—I know that that is the case with Reykjavik. I would have to come back to you on the technicalities of the programme, but it will have a major effect on everyone who is dealing with these issues.

Are there particular challenges with countries such as Norway, which is in the EEA, and the UK, which is now outside the European Union—Sweden is, of course, in the EU—in trying to devise an energy policy that incorporates and draws on the resources of all those countries, but which also designs rules that will ensure that energy needs are met?

That is an important question. We are happy that we managed to get the negotiations done because there are so many national interests at many levels, even within the EU, where some countries, such as Sweden, have come quite far while others might not have come as far. We must compensate for that so that the green agenda is not pushed through so hard that we make it difficult for some economies to follow.

As you know, there have been lots of negotiations in trying to find the middle way in all these things, which is what the EU is about. Things that can seem to be a bit cumbersome are just a way of getting it right. We have done an enormous job in getting to where we are right now.

Of course, many were worried that the current energy situation, which is a fallout of the Russian aggression in Ukraine, would slow down the ambition on the climate side, but we are keeping to the timetable. That takes constant work in finding the right way so that everyone feels the compromise.

I am aware that there has been strong debate and discussion about the inclusion of gas and nuclear in the taxonomy.

Exactly.

Ambassador, you have mentioned young people quite a few times. My experience at the Nordic Council showed me how much the youth from each country were included in the process. They took part in the plenary sessions and were fully involved.

As a country, we were very active in the Erasmus exchange across Europe. Considering the economic challenges and the growth areas that you see for young people, how can our educational establishments and young people continue to engage in that kind of exchange across Europe, albeit that that would be outwith the European Union?

We, at least, very much miss that exchange. Erasmus is not part of the current co-operation framework, but I hope and think that that will change eventually, because it is extremely important that generations all over Europe meet from a young age. We will have to do everything that we can to simplify things so that we come back to the previous situation.

It goes both ways. A lot of Swedes used to come not only to Scotland but to the rest of the UK. That is dropping. I was one of those people: as a young person, I travelled a lot. That is when people forge their relationships and see the world for what it is and learn about it.

We have to look at that situation and do everything that we can to improve it. For us, too, that is very important.

I turn to our remit. The committee has a long name, which includes not only constitution and external affairs but culture. Last year, we had an international culture summit, with a special day that was focused on Ukraine and its culture, which was about how we might be able to sustain Ukrainians’ cultural identity, to help them to maintain their collections and to support Ukrainian culture. During the Edinburgh festival, we had performances from the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra and the Ukrainian Freedom Ballet.

As the dreadful war in Ukraine continues, what is the European Union doing to support and celebrate Ukrainian culture?

There are a lot of efforts to support Ukraine, on every level. For instance, on a basic level, we ambassadors want to work with the Ukrainians here in the UK.

Within the EU and Europe, there are many examples. I am not aware of any specific programme, but in all reconstruction and financial support, there is always a cultural component, because the culture is what keeps things together. If anything is extremely important, it is the cultural side. That is high in our awareness.

It is also a question of supporting Ukrainian culture at a time when that might be difficult in Ukraine. It is important that you keep that up. It is good that you have culture in the remit of such a committee as yours, which deals with other very important issues, because that underlines its importance: it is the basis for politics, the economy and so forth.

On behalf of all my colleagues, I thank you very much for your attendance at the committee this morning. It has been really helpful to us. I hope that we can look forward to continuing to have the presidency come to our committee and that we can maintain those connections with the European Union.

I suspend the meeting so that witnesses can change over.

09:45 Meeting suspended.  

09:48 On resuming—